royal navy what if

[retro_seventies]

potentially great ship, cancelled in 1966.

good what if planes here too, towards the bottom - scaled down raf/rn tsr2 concept, vickers type 581, vickers type 583, not to mention the spiffy hs.p139b

sh!tloads better than a crappy "through deck cruiser" any day.

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Bunker/9...52/sectship.htm

[Ogwash]

Hi Ben

Yeah Richard Breedals site is very good, i found it very handy when doing my CVF and Type 45 (However the CVF will need to be redone as it size is probably going to change with the defence review).

I always try check the warships1 forum to check the messages he tends to put as he always seem to be on the pulse with Naval Affairs.

The CVA-01 sub section in the CVF section is the one people should see with the proposed British Carrier Aircraft from the 60's. The Domine as a COD aircraft sounds interesting, i wonder if it could have been adapted to the ASW and AEW roles once it was made Carrier capable ?.

GeoffB
B)  

[retro_seventies]

"The Domine as a COD aircraft sounds interesting, i wonder if it could have been adapted to the ASW and AEW roles once it was made Carrier capable ?."

i don't see why not mate...

she'd look just great with bumps on her belly and a mad boom....bulged internal bay maybe? or stores externally...

sidewinders for self defence like the nimrod carries?    

nice radar on there too (maybe even like the nimrod aew3 was planned to have, only a bit smaller of course, and probably folding too).

of course we could always have gone off the shelf and bought hawkeyes and vikings, but that just SUCKS (nice planes, but no modelling fun to be had if all you are gonna do is give them new paint! we need filler and sanding and drilling and sawing and beer and swearing and blood sweat and tears!).

ahem.

i think i might even fancy making one of those ya know....not that it'll be easy to get a fecking dominie kit in texas (maybe my bro for xmas??)

cheers mate,

ben  

[Captain Canada]

"The Domine as a COD aircraft sounds interesting, i wonder if it could have been adapted to the ASW and AEW roles once it was made Carrier capable ?."

Yeah, but can I get 'em in 350th scale !?

Beuller ?

[Mike Wren]

i think i might even fancy making one of those ya know....not that it'll be easy to get a fecking dominie kit in texas (maybe my bro for xmas??)

try ebay...

Dominie

[retro_seventies]

good call mikey...

i just emailed him - there's also one i found under bae 125 for a tenner....now if he can just get his lardy donkey into gear (the cakey pig) then we'll be in business!

[Joe C-P]

I wonder where they would have gone with the airgroup later on. The ships were planned to last until around now, and Buccaneers and Phantoms are long ago outdated. Do they go with F/A-18s, navalized Tornados, Rafales? (Yet Another Group Build Idea.) I'd guess the first, to save money and help the cross-Atlantic friendship. E-2s, S-3s? Helicopters? The AEW helo becomes redundant.

The Falklands certainly would have gone differently; HMS QE with Phantoms and Buccs would have been far more effective than Invincible and Hermes. Hermes might have been used as an LPH, giving an improved assault capability.

[retro_seventies]

Joe old chap,

that's exactly the point that i made in the thread about toad's smashing models of the RCN arrow and sea harrier in the malvinas circa 1982!

great minds think alike eh?

i'm with you though mate - a Royal Navy what if group build would be a super idea! Plenty of options there too (maybe a crossover with the TSR2 group build with their vg navy birds?).

I doubt that we would have had the cash to be buying tomcats alas - still, there's plenty of scope for planes on a "real" carrier!  We'd probably go for the tornado, but in a dual role or with ids and adv planes on board i dunno....

and would the sea harrier still be around??

certainly if we stayed with the idea of the thru deck cruisers being assualt carriers with lots of marines and choppers on board, then they could carry sea harriers...

interesting idea!

GROUP BUILD PLEASE!!!!    

[Geoff_B]

Hi Joe & Ben

Love the Carrier concept, and yes it does make you wonder what Aircraft would be flying from CVA-01 now. The Size of the flight deck and cats mean that aircraft such as the E-3 Hawkeye and S-3 Viking could operate form a vessel of this size. Maybe we would have gone with the F-18 as i agree that the F-14 would be to big and expensive for Royal Navy use.

However if the UK had gots its next generation of Carriers into service by the 70's then perhaps the US CVV concept would have continued as replacements for the old Essex class, with the USN having a mixed fleet of CVN Super Carriers with some smaller conventional carriers.

If this had been the case then to go with the smaller lighter carriers, smaller Carrier capable aircraft mat have been developed. As the USN would not have been obsessed with the Big & Powerful aircraft.

This leads to the possibilities of the other smaller carrier nations getting newer carriers or Vtol carriers to replace their WWII vintage ships along with new smaller carrier aircraft or S/VTOL alternative airgroups (Australia, Canada, Brasil, Argentina, India, UK, USN, France, maybe even Holland.

Cheers

Thor B)  

[Geoff_B]

Ben, it's hard enough getting an HS125 Dominie here in the UK, let alone anywhere else! Might be worth giving Trevor Snowden a list of UK aircraft that Airfix should rerelease next year

I think Trev has dropped a hint on the Airfix site that it is time for the Dominie to be rereleased, especailly with new decals for the modern schemes. But we will have to wait and see.

As to a Navalised Tornado, i would expect a longer beefier Undercarriage, (you could always do a Dutch Naval Tornado armed with Harpoons flying from a Dutch Carrier if we say the screw up at the end of the sixties didn't happen. Maybe the dutch bought someting like Victorious or built their on version of Clemceau to replace the Karl Dooraman)

Naval Jags would be an obvious choice as the M variant was built and tested at sea and did cat trials at the RAE. Using a longer under carraige with twin wheels fwd and single main wheels

Jaguar M

Cheers

Thor B)

[retro_seventies]

Wooks,

i think that my brother is seeing what he can do at home, back in blighty, for me, but as you quite rightly say, its going to be a bit of a bugger trying to get one...hopefully airfix will turn one out - and while we are at it, do they do a jetstream as well, or is that out of production also?

It figures that a naval tornado has been done before, its a pretty simple jump from the "do everything" plane of the RAF, to the workhorse of the RN - that being said, as a maritime strike plane, for its period it would have been one of the best.

Naval Jags would be an obvious choice as the M variant was built and tested at sea and did cat trials at the RAE. Using a longer under carraige with twin wheels fwd and single main wheels

Indeed Thor,

naval jags would indeed be the obvious choice, and a pretty inexpensive and versatile little beast they would be too - a bit long in the tooth for right now, but a nice build nonetheless, and a very capable plane (especially with radar and maybe with 2 seats) a few years ago.

can't wait to get the group build all "official" - c'mon tom, let us know if we get a "yay" or a "nay" - we're busting at the seams with ideas and spare kits...lol

personally i'm pretty excited about the possibility of a swedish carrier chock full of super swinging saabs and stuff...yay!

all the best,

ben (this is a naval tornado, BTW!)


 

[Aircav]

Ben, it's hard enough getting an HS125 Dominie here in the UK, let alone anywhere else!  Might be worth giving Trevor Snowden a list of UK aircraft that Airfix should rerelease next year.

I know where there is a Matchbox Hs125 but I think its about £12 and without the box