What-If Aircraft Carriers

[Geoff_B]

Just wondering which carrier to go for as i'm sure i can create a model of any of these. I may even see JOE about possible production if its feasable. Also what scale ? 1/600 or 1/700 (no 1/350 Toad as its just too damn big !!!)

Cheers

Thor B)  

[Captain Canada]

Go big or go home !

or...

Just go and build whatever scale you please !  

[TsrJoe]

yeah id happily mould it up for the group...should be relativly easy to do...

add as much detail as youd like Geoff...iv just got some new resin which may be even better than that used previously...even thinner...less bubbling...strong too, only drawback is mould life may be down a bit...well see...!!! we can doiscuss model breakdown nearer the time, but broken down with a seperate deck plate and island should suffice for starters ?

cheers, joe    

[Nick]

I didn't know Italy were building a new carrier, looks interesting especially with it's mixed designs as a carrier, amphibious assault ship and ro-ro ferry.
New Italian Aircraft Carrier aka Andrea Doria.

Nick B)  

[Geoff_B]

Andrea Doria

Hi Nick

Yes the New Italian carrier was originally going to be more like a smaller US LHA of the Wasp class type, however later on they decided to remove the dock to give more hanger space and use the vessel more like Ocean. This vessel like the new Spanish LHD are being made Harrier capable to supplement their existing VTOL carriers, but originally both vessels were intended for the Airbourne Assault. NUM or Andrea Doria design may be revised as a later replacement for the smaller Gussippi Garribaldi which like the invincibles will be to old and small to operate the F-35 effectively.

Spanish LHD

Spain is also building a LHD similar (but smaller to the Wasp) keeping the full dock, but installing a ski jump, as the shorter flight deck means a harrier or JSF cannot get a decent rolling take off.

ADS

India are also building their own new Aircraft carrier based loosely on the Italian design but with an Angled deck and Ski jump in a similar fromat to the Russian carrier Kuznetsov. These vessels are intended to operate Mig-29k and maybe the Sea Harrier FA2. There are rumours of Yak restarting the 141 program so it might be possible India has decided to go for this aircraft to replace its harriers then the strings attached JSF or the dated and untested Mig-29K (which might be a bit pushed for space on the ADS. France is also trying to push the Rafale, but this may be too expensive for Indian tastes and would require a US made and installed steam Cat.

Cheers

GeoffB B)  
 

[Joe C-P]

CVA-01, so I can build it in Desert Storm! Skywave is releasing Tornados, and WEM makes, or made, Jaguars in 1/700, so she'll have a full flight deck.

The SCS and CVV might find an audience as well, for smaller nations' navies.

[Ogwash]

So it looks like the CVA-01 is the most popular so far, i suppose i should consider doing a common hull form with optional Islands and possibly Stern area. I would need to discuss this with Joe.

As to the Other options, the CVV and SCS designs are US designs from the 70's that might have formed the basis of new carriers to replace the WWII small and medium carriers in Allied navies.

S.C.S. Design

SCS Ses Control Ship, US small Vtol carrier a new form of escort carrier using VTOL aircraft. A similar deign with sponsosn and angled deck is also known to exsist to allow convential aircraft to be used. Possible replacements for the Bonnie, Melbourne and the other ex British light fleets, probably a small airgroup.

CVV

CVV Carrier Versatile, a non nuclear powered US carrier, smaller and cheaper that the SuperCarriers, similar in size to the CVA-01 and the CVF (as planned) would have replaced the older US Super Carriers and the old Essex class vessels. Airgroup would be about the 50 mark. USN preferred to keep it large by holding out for more CVN's, but considering airgroups are now down to about 60 on carriers now, not sure if they made the right choice. If this design had gone ahead then its possible they could have been used as a basis for the Ark Royal replacement when CVA-01 got too complicated, also possible alternative the the Charles De Gaulle design.
Another possible what if of going for this concept is that the Aircraft designe to go with them would have been more interesting as smaller carriers would mean smaller, lighter carrier aircraft or VTOL aircraft.

Cheers

GeoffB B)  

[Joe C-P]

S.C.S. Design

SCS Sea Control Ship

CVV

CVV Carrier Versatile
Cheers

GeoffB B)

The SCS became the basis for the Spanish and later Thai light CVHs. Even without a ski-jump it would have made a good LPH or CVS for those navies discarding their WW2 veterans. Argentina, Australia, Canada, the Netherlands all might have picked one up, along with many other coastal countries that would want the prestige and versatility of a carrier without the cost of a full-scale CV. Countries like Chile, Norway, Taiwan, (West) Germany, South Africa, Pakistan, Japan (not much different from new Osuma LPDs).

The CVV may a bit large for most navies. However, I agree with GeoffB that the RN and French navy might (should?) have considered it; perhaps Brazil, India, China if the Communists had lost power, Japan if they creatively reinterpreted their constitution.

Aircraft ideas? Lesse, there the A-4 (still in service!), (Gos)Hawk, Jaguar, A-7, Harrier, Etenard, S-2 Tracker, F/A-18A/Bs, OV-10 and other similar short-takeoff observation/light attack aircraft, Skyraiders (I miss those big props on US CVs). And of course helos, lots of possibilities there.

(Hey, maybe a modernized Skyraider, for proper ground support. I wonder if one could take off of an LHD? But that's for another thread.)

On thread, maybe an SCS with an all-attack airgroup?

There, I've emptied my head for today.  :zzz:  

[Geoff_B]

Aircraft ideas? Lesse, there the A-4 (still in service!), (Gos)Hawk, Jaguar, A-7, Harrier, Etenard, S-2 Tracker, F/A-18A/Bs, OV-10 and other similar short-takeoff observation/light attack aircraft, Skyraiders (I miss those big props on US CVs). And of course helos, lots of possibilities there.

Hi Joe

Thats the idea, I'm sure small STVOL carriers would have promoted further development of the VTOL aircraft, both the Harrier types and its developments, 1150, 1154, AV-16,  the later Hawker concepts etc, plus some of the smaller transport utility aircraft being experimented with. The US had  a few ideas and concepts in the VTOL area such as the GD one shown earlier on this site.

Smaller lighter conventional carrier aircraft are likely as well, the F-17 might well have stayed a smaller lighter carrier aircraft as opposed to turning into the F-18, the F-16 may have been modified for a carrier role. There are plenty of possiblilities in the Tony Buttler books. The UK decision to scrap its carrier fleet had a long term effect on the development of the carrier, france struggled along on its own, the USN went 100% big carriers with big aircraft, so most of the smaller carrier nations were left with nothing to follow on their original carriers.

There are plenty of options available to us.

GeoffB

[retro_seventies]

I rather fancy the rather racy looking SCS for my Swedish airgroup...

i'd need the angled deck/sponson one for my viggens and stuff though, right? I'm still getting all tingly about a sea tunnan in sea lizard cammo...must buy a tunnan kit this weekend...

(note, if no more posts by me, wife has seen the "must buy kit this weekend" and killed me).

[Geoff_B]

(note, if no more posts by me, wife has seen the "must buy kit this weekend" and killed me).

Just says its code for a Pork Pie !!!!.

As to the SCS design, it should be straight forward, the Viggen had excellent STOL capabilities so a small airgroup with a few CH-46's as the helo element.

I'll sse if i can find the artwork for you Ben, but the Viggen could be interesting to build in 1/700 !!!! (the Gripen is due out soon in metal however !!!).

BTW Ben Sweedish ships in the 70's because of their coastal use had a lizard camo as well !!!!!!

Cheers

Geoff B B)  

[P1127]

I'd wanna do HMS Duke of Edinburgh (Which would have been CVA-02) rather than HMS Queen Elizabeth (CVA01)

Wonder if they'd have left the Cunarder as QE2 if HMS QE2 had existed

[Joe C-P]

I'd wanna do HMS Duke of Edinburgh (Which would have been CVA-02) rather than HMS Queen Elizabeth (CVA01)

Wonder if they'd have left the Cunarder as QE2 if HMS QE2 had existed

Not a problem doing the second over the first. Just change the pennant numbers, the name on the stern, a couple antennae and a few other bits and bobs. Every ship in a class is a little different, even more so over time.

They certainly could have had both at the same time. The USN and RN had an Enterprise simultaneously, the US could have had a CV and liner named United States.

JoeP