60s 70s what ifs

[uk 75]

Have just joined this as someone interested in RAF and RN aircraft that might have been in the 60s and 70s (but also more widely, including things like the CVA 01 carrier and the other projects going in (eg France's VSTOL and VG aircraft which overlap with ours)
Unfortunately I am not a modelmaker and have to rely on the efforts of other to add planes to my collection (Keith Manning's Aviation fairs at Luton and Feltham are good sources).
I would put myself in the what-if (ie was it actually ever thought about) rather than the fantasy (would n't a B2 bomber look nice in Taiwan Air Force colours) bracket. That is not to decry the latter entirely since the resulting model gives pleasure to the builder and possibly others.
My main interests (as others in this group) are TSR 2 and other planes covered in Tony Buttler's books. As such I have been fascinated by the models of this plane and the BAC 583 shown on the site.
As Joe Cherrie has pointed out elsewhere, the what-if research can be quite complicated. For example, with TSR 2 it is clear that various people speculated (mainly in the aviation press rather than the Industry) about weapons options for the plane. From what I have been able to find from a variety of sources, the reality is rather dull.  In line with NATO early 60s thinking the TSR2 was principally aimed at getting its nuclear payload from the UK, Germany or Cyprus to a point in the Warsaw Pact. This contributed to its eventual demise because even within the RAF there were those who wanted something able to put AS 30s, Bullpups and later MARTELs on to conventional targets.
It is a measure of the desparation that set in during 1962 to 4 that options for stand-off missiles emerged for the plane (though some sources claim this was because Ministers had misread their briefs and confused Bullpups etc with weightier missiles).
An excellent RAF monograph published in the 90s which I picked up in the RUSI library reckoned that a force of 100 TSR2s with basic equipment (ie nukes and no missiles) would have left the RAF operating these with Hunters and Lightnings only well into the 80s.
I prefer the optimistic view which Ministers were presented with of an RAF in 1975, fully mobile and equipped with TSR2s, HS 1154s, together with developed Lightnings, with a whole new family of UK built swing wing aircraft under test ready to replace them. Supported of course by HS 681 transporters and the "small number of C5s" which the RAF also wanted.

[Ogwash]

Welcome UK 75

Yes alot of work goes back to those fateful decisions in the late 50's and 60's where politics have controlled the development of aircraft rather than the advances in technology.

Apart from the TSR-2 mass build which we have based on the facts we know then we have mirrored operational service where possible, obviously the TSR-2 would have been upgraded once it entered service and new Armaments fitted as we tend to forget that as like the aircraft various weapon systems projects were also cancelled.

Tony's books have provided a fair ammount of inspiration, Joe is currently producing the FDIII form the fighters cover and hopefully the 583 might go into limited production as well. others from the book are being worked upon but not sure which will become available.

Cheers

Og B)

[Captain Canada]

Welcome aboard, uk75 !

Sounds like you'll fit right in here, with all the other resident TSR.2 nuts !

Sure we can't persuade you to change your name to CDN75 ?  And maybe a die-hard Arrow fan ? That sounds better, doesn't it ?

[nev]

Welcome aboard UK 75    

[lancer]

Nice to see new blood UK75. Welcome to the funhouse!!, have a blast now you're here. BTW, very nice opening post.