TSR.2 problems...

[TsrJoe]

A lot has been written over the years on the 'ill fated' BAC. TSR.2 aircraft and its 'untimely' cancellation...having spent many years sifting contempory documentation on virtually every facet of the aircraft and its programme, a few snippets might prove a useful debating point...bearing in mind these are 'NOT HINDSIGHT' and are from official source documentation of the time!
... due to its long gestation period the prototype emerged around the time when digital systems were becoming commonplace, much of the TSR.2 being analogue technology... the previously mentioned undercarriage needed a drastic redesign due to a number of structural and design faults which were in hand at the time of cancellation... the BS. Olympus engine was still a prototype unit a long way from production standard.. the cockpit was due for redesign due to poor visibility...there was a major identified problem with lateral surface area requiring either a revised tail fin or underfuselage strakes...the intakes likewise required minor revision, notably with the boundry layer splitters to eliminate some undesirable aerodynamic buzz...the alu/lithium alloy used in its construction, due to the design being overweight (as almost every design becomes) was proven in tests to be extremely frangiable, one 20mm strike in certain areas ensuring the loss of the airframe, whilst not excactly a shattering (excuse the pun!) conclusion, this was flagged to the company before prototype construction commenced!...added to all this the open and acrimonious infighting between the two companies tasked with its production...the non compliance to announced project aim points...constantly changing detail specifications (admittedly not all on the company side!)... as well as most importantly, the well known but usually disregarded, horrendous cost overruns, all helped seal the fate of the aircraft...there were many more issues which became apparent in hindsight, those listed being the ones documented whilst the project was 'live' and were taken from official reference sources.

sorry to put such a downer on such a beautiful aircraft, (its still my most fav aircraft of all time tho even after all the above!)...altho it does help to understand the reasoning behind what on the surface are 'simple political decisions' !

cheers, joe

[Radish]

You see, I was right all along!!

F-111K  

[Ollie]

Joe, do you think you could build one TSR.2 with all the proposed amendments in it?

I wonder what it would look like...

[BillSlim]

Dosen't really surprise me.
Before the CAD and computer aided design came along aircraft often had problems when built at prototype stage that required re-design. Even at production stage problems often persisted (e.g. the Typhoon, the Hawker one that is).

BAC probably could have come up with solutions to these problems given time, and money. Unfortunatley the government of the day wasn't willing to throw more 'good money after bad', as it would have seen it.

I've always been a fan of the TSR.2 myself.

BTW, talking of the TSR.2 I noticed in 'Scale Models International' that there was a photo of a whole lot of TSR.2s on display at the Northern Show.
Was anybody from here involved in that?

[elmayerle]

IMHO, all of those problems are/were amenable to correction/fixing given the will of the national government to press forward and spend the capital necessary to develop and field the TSR.2.  I won't say it would be easy, but it would be doable.  Note: This would be a good place in an alternate-history for their prospective US partner (Lockheed) to make some excellent contributions to the development of the design.

[Geoff_B]

BTW, talking of the TSR.2 I noticed in 'Scale Models International' that there was a photo of a whole lot of TSR.2s on display at the Northern Show.
Was anybody from here involved in that?

Yeap that was the SIG all models coming from either Wooksta, Lazlo Woodbine , Martin H or myself. Which issue of the Mag is it in ?

Cheers

Geoff B B)  

[BillSlim]

It was the September issue.

The photo was a bit small, so it was difficult to make out details, but they looked rather nice

BTW what scale was that? I've been trying to work it out.

[Radish]

In the report in the September issue of Scale Models re the East Midlands Show at Hinckley, quite a lot of quarter Scale Group RN models are photographed, including my F-35 in RN markings. They've photographed the grey one, not the black one, but who cares, eh?
Also.....F-111Ks, eh!!
And if nothing had been cancelled, would we have had the MARVELLOUS F-4 Phantom??
The PHANTASTIC TOOM???
                       

[BillSlim]

That was yours was it, Radish.

Very nice.

[Geoff_B]

And if nothing had been cancelled, would we have had the MARVELLOUS F-4 Phantom??

Very probably Rad at that time as the Govt had already screwed up the Sea Vixen replacement program by merging it with the RAFs Hunter replacement creating the 1154. The RN had dropped the 1154 before the big purge and had permission to order F-4 Phantoms from the US. These would most likely have been the latest USN version (the J model ?) without any fuss of wedging RR's Spey into the airframes.

If they hadn't mucked up the Sea Vixen program then we may well have had the 1154 instead of the Harrier and possibly the 583 (or similar) in place of the Phantom.

Bill the TSR-2's are all 1/72 scale and mainly based upon the Heritage Aviation resin kit.

Cheers

Geoff B B)  

[Radish]

Yeah, the Grey F-35's mine.
I've a black one too.
Both based on the Panda kit (that's a super "fun build", nice and easy, no filler plus it's actually quite big.)
I'd keep all the doors closed on the top though.
Also, the cockpit interior needs a bit of work with plasti strip/rod and the ejection seat needs replacing.....and Airwaves do a direct replacement.
I also dropped the slats and flaps, but this minor surgery only takes a little while.

Lots of F-4s still then.....pleased to hear it, and the "J" is one of my all time favourites.