'But that aircraft didn't fly in that service'

[Weaver]

Apparently Greece ordered the Fiat G.91R. A number of aircraft were painted up in Greek markings before Greece decided that they didn't want them after all, and they were bought up by Germany. Turkey had also contracted for some, but I don't know if any got as far as being painted before the order was cancelled.

[Mossie]

A slightly odd one, but NATO/OTAN E-3's wear Luxembourg markings.  The aircraft are crewed & maintained by a number of NATO nations & Luxembourg do not provide any military personell.  They are operated from Germany, as well as a few other forward bases, none of them in Luxembourg.  Luxembourg doesn't have an Air Force, so although they wear the markings, they can't be said to be flying in Luxembourg service, except that it is a NATO/OTAN partner & benefits in that sense.

More info here:  http://www.e3a.nato.int/html/faq.htm

[Ian the Kiwi Herder]

Luxembourg doesn't have an Air Force,

Thread Hijack ALERT
Or any standing military for that matter. Mrs. Hunter-Gatherer, who calls herself German, speaks with a heavy German accent, was educated in Germany and is for-all-intents-and-purposes.... German, actually holds a Luxembourg passport, as do the little Hunter-Gatherers. We stop-off there on the way into Germany for our holidays each year, and I'm constantly amazed that such an important - though tiny - country has only one airport and not even a token defence force..... strange.

Good What If fodder though !
Thread Hijack SAFE

Ian

[Mossie]

Luxembourg has an army, but it's tiny, not more than 500 personnel.  I believe they rely on conscription if a larger force is required, also it's handy being a NATO member when you're that small!

[Weaver]

Wikipedia says 800. I do recall that they made a small but well-equipped contribution to the NATO ACE Mobile Force: a recce unit with armoured Hummers equipped with MGs and TOWs.

Edit: they also contributed to the various peace-keeping forces in the former Yugoslavia.

[Mossie]

Ah, realised where I went wrong, checking Wiki there are 450 professional soldiers, the rest being enlisted men & civvies.

[B777LR]

As an opposite example of real world 'false flag' operations, the German Bundesluftwaffe owns and operates T-38 Talons, which for legal reasons carry USAF insignia instead of iron cross markings, at Sheppard AFB in Texas for the Euro NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training (ENJJPT).

Martin

Back in the day,they also flew F-104Fs (early model TF-104Gs) and F-4Fs from George AFB in California.Both of these aircraft also carried USAF markings but with small,but noticibale differences. The F-104s had a German flag or Red White and blue as the fin strip at the top of the vertical stablizer adn the F-4Fs,while having the star and bar and "GA" tailcodes,they were in the older style dark green/grey splinter camo.

Although,if there are legal reasons for the German Planes to be marked as USAF birds,why not the Tornados at Holloman? Seeing as both F-104s and F-4 (combat types) and the T-37s and T-38s(dedicated trainers) have been marked as USAF,shouldnt the Tornados too?

I think it's because the Tornadoes often ferry back to Germany for service there (with replacement aircraft going the other way). The T-38s will never see Germany. Dunno about the F-104s and F-4s, but those were a long time ago.

Luxembourg doesn't have an Air Force,

Thread Hijack ALERT
Or any standing military for that matter. Mrs. Hunter-Gatherer, who calls herself German, speaks with a heavy German accent, was educated in Germany and is for-all-intents-and-purposes.... German, actually holds a Luxembourg passport, as do the little Hunter-Gatherers. We stop-off there on the way into Germany for our holidays each year, and I'm constantly amazed that such an important - though tiny - country has only one airport and not even a token defence force..... strange.

Good What If fodder though !
Thread Hijack SAFE

Ian

Let me give you a hint: How would you take off without entering the airspace of Germany, Belgium or France? It's only 80 kilometers across from north to south, and only about 45 from east to west The approach pattern to the airport extends into German and French airspace

[Weaver]

Let me give you a hint: How would you take off without entering the airspace of Germany, Belgium or France? It's only 80 kilometers across from north to south, and only about 45 from east to west The approach pattern to the airport extends into German and French airspace

Sounds like a natural Harrier customer then.........

Alternatively, maybe they're the only people in the world still using ZELL: ZELL F-16 anyone? 

[Ian the Kiwi Herder]

Let me give you a hint: How would you take off without entering the airspace of......

Allow me to give you a hint..... I KNOW !

Ian

[elmayerle]

Let me give you a hint: How would you take off without entering the airspace of Germany, Belgium or France? It's only 80 kilometers across from north to south, and only about 45 from east to west The approach pattern to the airport extends into German and French airspace

Sounds like a natural Harrier customer then.........

Alternatively, maybe they're the only people in the world still using ZELL: ZELL F-16 anyone? 

Either of those sounds like a cool whiff?  What are Luxembourg's markings?  I've got a few spare Harriers....

[Mossie]

They're quite funky Evan.  You might be able to find decals from a NATO E-3, otherwise you'll need to print them, I can't imagine them being easy to find!

[elmayerle]

Since I'm currently without a printer (mine's back home in Texas while I'm Currently in Connecticut), I'd need to have someone print these for me (I'd pay costs and shipping of course).  'Twould definitely be different markings.  Wonder what the low-viz ones would look like?

[Mossie]

I should be able to help you there Evan, don't worry about the postage, found it doesn't cost that much for a letter to the US.  They'll be laser jet printed so the quality won't be sparkling, but they should do.  They'll end up looking pretty much like the image.  Low viz would be interesting, I might be able re-colour the image, will be after the weekend though.  If I haven't done it by Wednesday, prod me with a PM!

[elmayerle]

So, what form of serial numbers are we looking at here?  I'd like to get a reasonably accurate aspect here (yeah, it's a whif, but I like believeable ones).

[rallymodeller]

The NATO E-3s use the standard USAF serial numbers assigned to them on delivery (all NATO E-3s were originally purchased thru the USAF) prefixed by "LX-N" (eg. LX-N50492). Methinks that any Luxembourgische Air Force aircraft would use very small numbers (Bort numbers?) or civil registration...