Me-262 B twin seat in schräge musik configuration - looking for leads

[Stan in YUL]

Hi gang, anyone seen such a config?  Would the weapons be mounted in, aft of the rear cockpit, or perhaps in barbets like on the Me-410?  Personally I could see the barbet thing happening.  Your thoughts!

[NARSES2]

Personally I can see them behind the rear cockpit, however I know what you mean about barbettes and the P.1099 had barbettes, well Revell's kit dies anyway 

[Dizzyfugu]

AFAIK, it was planned but not installed in the few active aircraft. A set with two guns (probably compact 30 mm MK 108s) was supposed to be mounted behind the cabin (the only place that offered enough space), firing at 70° upwards - but I have doubts that the standard two-seater offered enough space to actually mount this set. The second seat already ate up internal fuel, and there's hardly much space left for a gun pack - not to speak of a CoG shift.



Pls. note that this is a modded/fictional internal view, nothing "authentic".

However, here's a nice (yet whiffy) model of what it might have looked like; it depicts a (planned) Me 262 B-2a, which had fuselage extensions in front of (for more fuel) and behind the cockpit, making a Schräge Musik much more plausible:

[kitnut617]

An Unicraft conversion I bought some years ago was of a 3-seat (as in tridem configuration ??) fuselage for a Me 262. Fuselage is quite a bit longer than standard so would work better for this ?. Problem is I can't find the conversion on Unicrafts website now -- I'll see if I can locate it in the stash and take a photo of it.

[Stan in YUL]

AFAIK, it was planned but not installed in the few active aircraft. A set with two guns (probably compact 30 mm MK 108s) was supposed to be mounted behind the cabin (the only place that offered enough space), firing at 70° upwards - but I have doubts that the standard two-seater offered enough space to actually mount this set. The second seat already ate up internal fuel, and there's hardly much space left for a gun pack - not to speak of a CoG shift.



Pls. note that this is a modded/fictional internal view, nothing "authentic".

However, here's a nice (yet whiffy) model of what it might have looked like; it depicts a (planned) Me 262 B-2a, which had fuselage extensions in front of (for more fuel) and behind the cockpit, making a Schräge Musik much more plausible:

Just what I have been thinking about.  I had seen that image but just couldn't picture it in place: not enough room and a C of G nightmare.  The fuselage stretches makes all the difference.

[su27rules]

 

[zenrat]

Revell's ridiculous take on the "Heavy Armour" version of the P1099 had rear fuselage barbettes, twin guns behind the cockpit (which wouldn't elevate enough for schrage musik use), and a single gun in a nose turret.
In the end it is however, as someone here pointed out, just an Me 262 with a weight problem.


Not my photo - cracking paint job though.

[dumaniac]

I did see some text that placed the guns adjacent to the rear cockpit. Would have been quiet noisy in my view. Perhaps the guns could be serviced by the rear occupant. This configuration means the rear fuel tank stayed in place. Not sure how the 262 speed would go with these guns whipping along under bombers. I Built a 48 scale model with the guns in place of the rear fuel tank - extra fuel being carried in under wing tanks. Was it feasible? Stuffed if I know. I just enjoy building plastic aeroplanes as a hobby. I am not an engineer or in a historical preservation society. This is just a hobby so please pivot counters, let it go. 

[Dizzyfugu]

The "real" 262 could only take a pair of 300l drop tanks under the front fuselage (they were AFAIK frequently used on the two-seaters because of the lack of internal fuel capacity), under the outer wings racks with unguided R4M missiles were possible (on the single-seat fighters), but IIRC these were not used operationally and there was neither plumbing nor structural strength for pylons and heavy loads. Would probably also influenced handling a lot? I think that not much more than 500 kg of ordnance was possible with the standard engines, so that any equipment or configuration change must have been a tough trade-off.

[Stan in YUL]

Thanks gents, that settles the matter for me.  Any 262 night fighter without fuselage stretches is going in with just the 4 30mm in the nose at best.