Canadian Combo Interceptor Query

Silver Fox · December 18, 2009, 01:18:45 AM

Pretty much all the applicable Arrow avionics will fit without major problems... there is a pile of growth space in the Mk 4/5 nose that was never used. You might kick some stuff like radios or the TACAN into the rear electronics bay... that normally didn't have much in it.

Gun replacement... I would think it depends on when the upgrade took place. Done early and 20's or the ADEN are a given. I wonder how gunbay dimensions compare to the Hunter and it's quadpack of ADENs? Replace the gun later and Vulcan becomes obvious.

I wonder if an ADEN would outrange a ZSU-23/4?

elmayerle · December 18, 2009, 02:43:31 AM

Quote from: Silver Fox on December 17, 2009, 06:27:40 PM
Why not a standard turbofan layout?

Fan section up front and the turbine section exhaust through a tailpipe extension like the Sabre and T-Bird used.

To model it, cut the front off the existing nacelles and graft on the fan section.

For a regular turbofan layout to work, the engine needs to be a two- (or more-) spool engine, the Orenda was a single-spool engine and I was just looking at ways of working with that, since a totally new engine would other wise be required and I didn't think that a total re-engining was necessary.

Silver Fox · December 18, 2009, 09:45:24 AM

Either way you have to change the nacelle significantly. I just figured the section forward of the leading edge was the least disruptive. 6 of one, 1/2 a dozen of the other.

jcf · December 18, 2009, 10:40:38 AM

A pack of four 20mm cannon was tested on a ground rig, problems with the T16 cannon led to it not being adopted.

AVRO tried to interest the RCAF in a production version of the CF-100 Mk.5Ms used in the Sparrow 2 development program for the CF-105.

A variety of missile armament was proposed for the Mk.8.

Note that in real world terms, in the 1950s - 60s period, you could have the missile system or a gunpack, not both as the airframe
simply wasn't big enough. Add in the mods to install turbo-fans and real estate becomes even more dear.

BTW on the Mk.5M the Fire Control system and missiles were powered by the right engine, lose that engine and you lose the system.

Jon

Weaver · December 18, 2009, 01:49:17 PM

Since Falcons were delicate, I wonder if you could re-engineer the gunpack into a weapon bay to take two to four of them, with a couple of Genies under the wings and tanks on the tips......

Silver Fox · December 18, 2009, 02:07:47 PM

Eagle is a major undertaking... To use it you need more radar power and a datalink. Genie should be easy, PAL circuitry is a new commo system, but there is plenty of room for that. Falcon depends on the model, IR should be simple unless you want to add an IRST dome. Radar Falcon might mean a significant radar mod. Sidewinder is extremely simple... some wiring mods and an intercom mod to hear the growl.

Eagle datalink has to go in the gun bay, Falcon might need all or part of it. Genie is probably OK with the gunpack... Sidewinder is definite, no conflict at all.

The 5M is a bit of a mashup, I would suspect that if it entered service that power distribution would be better arranged. The EW birds had some weird arrangements as well, basically prototypes even though they were in regular use.

Nice pics, I hadn't seen the Eagle installation before. The other drawings were kicking around 414 before the birds flew off in '82.

elmayerle · December 18, 2009, 02:52:27 PM

With that long exhaust pipe, going with an aft-fan design looks even better since you've got length enough to mix the hot and cold streams and lower the IR signature.

If you're feeling especially nasty, replace the choice of either Genies or Eagles on the wingtips with AIm-68 "Big-Q" (http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-68.html ) missiles with aspects of both, though I'd replace the IR seeker with an active or semi-active radar seeker.

Cobra · December 19, 2009, 11:38:38 PM

Guys, With Regards to the Combo Interceptor, Would the DEFA 30mm Cannon have Been Available when the 'CLUNK' was Built?

i'm thinking the Combo Interceptor would Work for a 'Gerry Anderson' style Project, That's why i asked. Dan

Silver Fox · December 20, 2009, 12:41:21 AM

Clunks were still rolling out of Malton for years after the DEFA entered service... so yes.

Sauragnmon · December 30, 2009, 03:22:35 PM

I'm liking the Fan-Clunk, but we keep the plank wings - Here's the kicker, turn it into an Air Support platform - a Canadian Hog! Give it the Tip Rockets, bomb racks, turbofans and a few thunder-guns in the nose for the bang-for-buck effectiveness.

Weaver · January 01, 2010, 01:06:40 AM

OR, go back to a more '50s concept: they decide to build a CB-100 light bomber with a fancy radar system in the nose, but, as per the Canberra, the radar never comes good, so they fit a glazed nose for a nav-bombadier instead, the result looking like a cross between an Il-28 and a Yak-28 Brewer....

If there isn't room in the nose as it stands, you could add a half-round bulge that starts in the bomb bay area and extends to the nose, thus giving more depth in the latter position.