BMP and BMD family of vehicles

[Weaver]

Israel does a mean Overhead Weapon station that fits the BMP. Not only does it carry a 30mm 2A42, and a pair of Spikes, but it folds nearly flat for air transport too.

How about this for rationalisation of a BMP-1 fleet:

1. Remove the turret from most of the troop carriers and replace it with the BRDM-2 turret with a 14.5mm KPV and a 7.62mm PKT. This reduces gunner workload, removes the arm-amputating auto-loader, reduces the amount of explosives inside the vehicle and increases space. The 73mm was inaccurate and slow-firing anyway, and the Saggers were totally exposed and being MACLOS, hard to guide, requiring the vehicle to stop dead from launch until impact.

2. Fit a proportion of vehicles with turrets removed from PT-76 light tanks. This is a proper two-man turret with a proper 76mm gun. Use some as recce vehicles (just as amphibious as the PT-76 and a lot faster) and some as integral fire-support vehicles in Motor-Rifle batallions equipped with the above APCs.

[Sauragnmon]

I might suggest, if you want to improve the BMP-1, give it a 30mm as used on, say, the BTR-80A?

Another improvement would be to thicken the rear door plates, so the door tanks wind up serving more as ablative armor in the field (as they're normally empty anyways) and less as "shoot me" signs.

Alternately, I thought it might be interesting to turn a BMP into a SPAA unit - prehaps mount the Kashtan gun/missile combination on it, using the aft area for the missile magazine?

[Taiidantomcat]

Excellent subject, With their pointed low hulls the BMP family can look good with all kinds of stuff. I plan on whiffing one with a giant radar in place of the turret and some vertical launch SAMs in the troop compartment.

[GTX]

How about a super modernised BMP-1 or -2 with stealth features?

Regards,

Greg

[Sauragnmon]

Nice idea, Greg - Ninja APC!

[Maverick]

'stealth' APC... anyone who's ridden around in the back of one or listened to one moving through the bush will know that that's a contradiction in terms if there ever was one.

Regards,

Mav

[Sauragnmon]

You can fix that thought though - shock-proof and soundproof the engine bay to cut out the engine rattle, and then put a whole whack of baffles in the muffler, maybe include a cooling jacket in it to lower the pressure in the exhaust, as it comes out hot from the engine, thus has higher pressure, between the baffles and a cooling section, it wouldn't be half as noisy or obvious to somebody with a microphone or an IIR scope.

BMP's would make a great concept for a low-RCS layout, as they're already relatively full of nothing but flat angles.  flatten the track skirts over, incorporate the curve at the top into a solid angle off the bow slope, angle the armor on the turret, facet it a few times.  Back of the track skirts incorporates into the straight angle of the back, facet the tanks/doors so they don't have the rounded edges.  Remove the firing ports, cover it in one smooth flat plate.

Basic concept, ja?

[Just call me Ray]

Israel does a mean Overhead Weapon station that fits the BMP. Not only does it carry a 30mm 2A42, and a pair of Spikes, but it folds nearly flat for air transport too.

How about this for rationalisation of a BMP-1 fleet:

1. Remove the turret from most of the troop carriers and replace it with the BRDM-2 turret with a 14.5mm KPV and a 7.62mm PKT. This reduces gunner workload, removes the arm-amputating auto-loader, reduces the amount of explosives inside the vehicle and increases space. The 73mm was inaccurate and slow-firing anyway, and the Saggers were totally exposed and being MACLOS, hard to guide, requiring the vehicle to stop dead from launch until impact.

Hmm, interesting. Is this a high-velocity or low-velocity gun? If it's a pretty low-velocity weapon it seems rather pointless to have.

2. Fit a proportion of vehicles with turrets removed from PT-76 light tanks. This is a proper two-man turret with a proper 76mm gun. Use some as recce vehicles (just as amphibious as the PT-76 and a lot faster) and some as integral fire-support vehicles in Motor-Rifle batallions equipped with the above APCs.

I remember hearing about some variant that was exactly that, but I can't remember much else unfortunately.

[dy031101]

Apparently, like many Russian-built tanks designed with autoloaders, some BMP-1 users had their autoloaders removed immediately after delivery.

Hmm, interesting. Is this a high-velocity or low-velocity gun? If it's a pretty low-velocity weapon it seems rather pointless to have.

According to Wikipedia:

== Begins ==

Two types of ammunition are used from 1974 (before 1974 the ammunition consisted of HEAT rounds only): the PG-15V HEAT fixed fin-stabilized rocket-assisted round and the OG-15V HE-Frag round. In Ob'yekt 765Sp3 the standard ammo load is 24 PG-15V HEAT rounds and 16 OG-15V HE-Frag rounds. Both projectiles are ejected from the barrel by a small charge, after after which a rocket ignites in the base of the projectile increasing the velocity. The projectile's low flight speed and fins will catch a crosswind and thus it tends to "shuttlecock" in high winds with consequent reduction in accuracy.

The PG-15V HEAT round weighs 3.47 kilograms (7.7 lb) uses a 2.6 kilograms (5.7 lb) PG-9 grenade with a 0.322 kilograms (0.71 lb) RDX explosive charge in the warhead. A small PG-15P powder booster is used to boost the projectile out of the gun barrel with a speed of 400 metres (1,300 ft) per second. After the projectile has travelled 10 to 20 meters from the muzzle the rocket motor cuts in and accelerates the projectile to 700 metres (770 yd) per second. The HEAT warhead can penetrate between 280 millimetres (0.31 yd) and 350 metres (380 yd) of steel armour more than enough to penetrate the front armour of NATO main battle tanks of 1970s like the US M60A1, British Chieftain or German Leopard 1. The modernized PG-9 grenade is able to penetrate up to 400 millimetres (16 in) of steel armour. The gun of the BMP-1 is unable to penetrate the front armour of modern NATO main battle tanks such as US M1A1 Abrams, British Challenger or German Leopard 2 but it has been claimed that it can penetrate side armour of these tanks in some areas.[30]. On proving grounds the PG-9 proved capable of hitting 2 metres (6.6 ft) tall targets at a range of 765 metres (837 yd), while its maximum direct fire range was 1,300 metres (1,400 yd), reduced to 400 metres (440 yd) at night due to the limitations of the night vision system. But under battlefield conditions it has a maximum effective range of 500 metres (550 yd).

The OG-15V HE-Frag round weighing 4.57 kilograms (10.1 lb) uses a OG-9 grenade with a 0.73 kilograms (1.6 lb) TNT bursting charge. The muzzle velocity of the OG-9 is 290 metres (320 yd) per second, a small OG-15P powder booster is used to boost the projectile out of the gun barrel. The OG-15V HE-Frag rounds were introduced in July 1974 with the Ob'yekt 765Sp3 to increase its fire-power against unarmored vehicles, infantry and firing points. The OG-15V is hand-loaded only as this round is shorter than PG-15V round and couldn't be taken by autoloader from the mechanized conveyor (also the autoloader was removed in the Ob'yekt 765Sp3). The maximum effective indirect range of OG-15V HE-Frag round against formation targets is 4,400 metres (4,800 yd) and its effective direct fire range against small point targets is around 1,000 metres (1,100 yd).

== Ends ==

[Weaver]

The point of adopting the rather eccentric 73mm gun in the BMP-1 was that it fired the same rocket-assisted round as the SPG-9 recoilless gun issued to batallion anti-tank platoons, but from a closed breech. However, the SPG-9 was quickly replaced by ATGWs, so this logistic advantage qickly became meaningless. The rounds are very space inefficient, being big relative to their terminal effects, as compared to a conventional gun round of similar muzzle velocity. As a fire support weapon with an HE round you could see some point to it, but as dy's article shows, it initially only had a HEAT round.

The autoloader was a dangerous device to share a cramped turret with, and apparently caused many injuries to gunners. It also slowed down the rate of fire and reduced the accuracy still further by requiring the gun to move to a certain elevation for reloading between shots, thus forcing the gunner to re-lay after each shot. When Sweden bought a job lot of ex-E.German BMPs and MTLBs, they immediately ripped out the autoloaders.

If you wanted a 30mm 2A42 cannon on a BMP-1, then the BMD-2 turret might be an option, since it's a one-man job that would fit the same turret ring.

[Fulcrum]

Sorry guys, thread revival time!!!

How about a Hover craft version of the BMP-1?

I got a assembled model of a BMP-1.

The problem is even though I liked what I did on the top part of the vehicle but screwed up on the wheels & the tracks(lost several wheels & a track).

Maybe Battlefield: Europe 2042???

[Taiidantomcat]

I think it would make a natural hover tank  That pointy hull gives it an aerodynamic look

[buzzbomb]

It also would look pretty mean with honking big wheels,perhaps from a BTR or MAZ series.
There is a heap of clearance under the hull.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

The Track-Link gallery has been updated with some images of Biethelm Berlage's 1/35th scale BMP armed with an LAV-25 turret.