Range instrumentation aircraft

[pyro-manic]

I haven't found the VC-10 model with radome I was looking for, but I did find this CGI:

Lovely looking device, even with the radomes!

How come they look good on a VC10 and not on a Nimrod?

'Cos Nimrods are really rather ugly to begin with, unlike the VC10!

[Weaver]

The Concorde program is often described as Europe's moonshot: what if we took that literally and had Britain and France spending the money on an actual moonshot, or at least a greatly enhanced space program, instead?

Both the Governements would probably have spent so much on travelling to umpteen  meetings that the project would run over budget and the next Government would have cancelled it...........  

Me cynical? You bet!

Be as cynical as you like, but Concorde DID get built as did/do a lot of multi-national projects, albeit slowly and inefficiently. The multi-national approach generally makes it harder to cancel a project for domestic political reasons because international treaties have usually been signed to create it in the first place.

I think that realistically, a European Space Program with real teeth would only be posible as a UK/France/Germany joint project. However in Whiff World, you can always change the ground rules and I'd love to see a Royal Space Agency moon lander covered in Union Jacks as much as anyone...

Anyhow, we're getting off-topic here, so I'm going to start a new one.

[anthonyp]

The only aircraft I can find that's actually operated by ESA is their zero-G Airbus A300:

So nothing like NASA's fleet. To be fair, ESA is a lot smaller; quite a few of the functions done by NASA in the US, can be found in national agencies in Europe. The national aviation authorities probably have the sort of aircraft I had expected. Still, that only gives more scope for what-ifs.

I've got, as a part of my one man space GB, ESA being well and truly expanded to a more NASA like organization.  For example, I've got the below as being part of the ESA airfleet (and their associated roles):

Alpha Jet - Akin to the NASA T-38's
EF-2000B - Similar to NASA's F-16XL's and F/A-18's
F-104A - Chase plane and early experimental aircraft
Fairey Rotodyne - obvious VTOL experimental platform
Gripen JAS-39B - Supplements the EF-2000's, and has its own lighter agile plane program
Harrier GR3 - VTOL experiment platform and chase plane
Hawk 56 - Chase plane and trainer like the T-38
Hunter 2-seat - Early chase plane and trainer
Jaguar T.2 - later T-38 analogue (supersonic trainer)
MB-339 - lightweight trainer and testing plane
Rafale B - joins the fleet of modern fighters-nee-experimental aircraft
Tornado - a few early examples handed over for use like the NASA F-111
A320 - Euro-Vomit-Comet
BAC111 - range aircraft/Hermes Shuttle trainer
BAE 146 - STOL research aircraft
A319 - light Vomit Comet and range aircraft
A340 - Airborne Telescope ala SOFIA/Vomit comet
A380-800 - heavy lifter/airborne telescope, ala SOFIA

...ya know, that's the first time I've ever actually sat down and thought about the various roles for ESA aircraft I have projected.

[pyro-manic]

Surely a Lightning or Mirage III (or Fairey Delta II et al) instead of an F-104A?

[anthonyp]

Surely a Lightning or Mirage III (or Fairey Delta II et al) instead of an F-104A?

It was the Italian contribution obviously  

[Weaver]

How about a Mirage IV as a spaceplane trainer? It would have (or could be given) similar handling characteristics to a delta-winged mini-shuttle and would be more realistically heavy than a Mirage.

A Vulcan would be an ideal equivalent to NASA's B-52 (due to it's tall u/c) to act as a drop-ship for small X-plane type research vehicles intended to explore lifting-body shapes (HL-10) and/or high speed flight (X-15). There was a real proposal for a manned Blue Steel that would be very buildable from the Airfix Vulcan kit. There was also a real proposal for a useful Vulcan-launched small satellite launcher that used Blue Steel engine technology.

[anthonyp]

How about a Mirage IV as a spaceplane trainer? It would have (or could be given) similar handling characteristics to a delta-winged mini-shuttle and would be more realistically heavy than a Mirage.

If I had more than zero in the stash, definitely a doable.

[Alvis 3.14159]

Wait wait wait!
A MANNED Blue Steel?

No fracking way! That's both cool AND insane!

Alvis Pi

[NARSES2]

No fracking way! That's both cool AND insane!

Alvis Pi

And you sir are the master of both 

[Alvis 3.14159]

This just proves that the world is easily as insane as my mind can be!

Alvis pi

[TsrJoe]

re the 'British X.15' or Avro FCRA. (Flight Corridor Research Aircraft) yip basically a 'manned Blue Steel' i posted up drawings for it from one of the old R&D. SIG. newsletters a while ago, not sure if stil here tho, definately somat different for sure

hmm, has anyone tried doodling a Nimrod with ARIA type nose and ALOTS pod on the forward fuselage, might make for an interesting whatif model circa 1970's RAF. operating as a range tracking aircraft for Europa launches from Woomera or French Guiana

re the esa aircraft post, i recall there was a thead on the forum which had some cg artwork of aircraft types in esa fleet schemes ? Alpha Jet etc.

another thread with similar .. http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,32648.msg506548/highlight,falcon.html#msg506548

[Weaver]

How about a Canberra PR.9 airframe modified with a steerable camera in the nose to film rockets as they go past at 60,000 ft? The second crewman could be moved back to a B(I).8 style position, leaving the whole nose free for the camera.

[rallymodeller]

How about a Canberra PR.9 airframe modified with a steerable camera in the nose to film rockets as they go past at 60,000 ft? The second crewman could be moved back to a B(I).8 style position, leaving the whole nose free for the camera.

Sort of how NASA used the couple of remaining WB-57Fs for post-Columbia launches. 

[Hobbes]

A Vulcan would be an ideal equivalent to NASA's B-52 (due to it's tall u/c) to act as a drop-ship for small X-plane type research vehicles intended to explore lifting-body shapes (HL-10) and/or high speed flight (X-15).

Saunders-Roe tried to sell the SR.53 as a high-speed research aircraft, their proposal included air-launching to increase endurance. Of course, given the SR.53's aluminium structure, top speed was limited to Mach 2.something (2.3?) so it wasn't the best of ideas. Maybe a rocket-powered version of the Miles M.52?

As for lifting body research: how about using the Short SC.1 as the starting point? It already looks like a lifting body: