Spain

[Geoff]

What if the Spanish air force was rebuilt by the British rather than the USA?

Tempests

Meteors

Vampires

Canberras

Javelins

Hunters

Lightnings

Tonkas

Thoughts?

[NARSES2]

Anglo-Spanish/Multi European projects ?

[Geoff]

Anglo-Spanish/Multi European projects ?

Yep! 

Also as we still sell Griffons to them :-

Griffon engined Beaus in the Ifni war. Not so much "Whispering death" as "Roaring snarly death" 

Lancs and Shaks for MP

Provosts, Jet Provosts.

Not sure where the Jags come from though - perhaps Fiat G-91s?

[kerick]

Anglo-Spanish/Multi European projects ?

Yep! 

Also as we still sell Griffons to them :-

Griffon engined Beaus in the Ifni war. Not so much "Whispering death" as "Roaring snarly death" 

Lancs and Shaks for MP

Provosts, Jet Provosts.

Not sure where the Jags come from though - perhaps Fiat G-91s?

Griffon engine Beaufighters? As he wanders off to the stash........

[Nick]

Plenty of war surplus Merlin engines to rebuild the Spanish Ju-88s and Heinkel 111s in 1950.

The Spanish translation for Gnat is el Mosquito. Just the way to confuse people by talking about a twin prop bomber while pointing at a single jet fighter   

[jcf]

Post-war civil Hercules with the rear-swept exhaust pipes in a Sea Fury type exhaust layout. The civil Hercules as used on the Bristol Freighter, Vickers Varsity etc. were 2,000hp engines.

[Weaver]

Can't remember if it was on here or BTS, but there was a Spanish Civil War GB many moons ago, and I had a whole elaborate alt history worked out. Unfortunately, work went mad at just the wrong time and I never got anything finished for it. Basically, it went something like this:

1936: Britain, France and the USA are persuaded (correctly) that the Republican government are, in fact, mild centre-leftists and not scary commies. They therefore hatch a plan to get Hitler and Mussolini bogged down in Spain in order to hinder their rearmament efforts, and shut out Stalin, by supplying the Republic with just enough arms to not-lose, but not enough to win. This kinda works (Mussolini falls for it but Hitler doesn't) and the two sides have fought each other to an exhausted stalemate by 1939. The Spanish Republic holds the north and east of the country while The Kingdom of Spain holds the south and west, with a roughly diagonal border cutting the country in half. Nationalist hardware is pretty  much as per real life, Republican hardware is western late '30s export stuff: Gladiators, D.510s, Fokker D.XXIs, Hurricanes, Curtiss Hawks, PZL-24s (yes really: despite being politically opposite, Poland was a major supplier to the Republic in real life). Soviet Russia supplies some hardware to be seen to be supporting their 'comrades' (in private Stalin was furious with them for rocking the boat) but it buys them much less influence than in real life.

WWII: both sides declare neutrality because they're both shattered, and their sources of supply dry up as their backers go to war themselves. Hardware is late '30s stuff kept going on a shoestring with local innovation. This leads both sides to develop their domestic aircraft industries.

Post-War: Britain, and later France, go back to their old policy of supporting the Republic, however nobody's in a mood for yet more fighting (especially the USA) so that, combined with the Kingdom's neutrality, saves it. A large number of refugee German engineers and scientists make their way to the Kingdom and revitalize it's industry, while the Republic doesn't invest in their's because imports are cheaper and easier. Kingdom hardware from this period is a variety of updated 1930s stuff (upgraded He 112s, for example) combined with various Luft '46 designs, while the Republic flies Meteors, Vampires and (later) Ouragans.

Mid 1950s: Britain and France continue to supply the Republic, but the USA holds back because they've spotted something the former seem blind to (either willfully or honestly), namely the drift leftwards of the Republic, as the Soviets renew their agitprop/infiltration efforts with a vengeance. Meanwhile, the Republic takes delivery of Hunters and Super-Mysteres. In the Kingdom, the CIA engineer a 'soft coupe' by younger, more progressive army officers (Franco has a 'car accident') and the State Dept starts laying the ground work for rehabilitating the country.

Late 1950s: things come to a head when a new Republican government announces explicitly communist policies and signs a declaration of mutual freindship with the Soviet Union. British and French support is withdrawn, and the USA starts pushing hard for the Kingdom to be admitted to NATO. De Gaul flatly refuses to countenance this, leading to years of tension and argument which feed into the French decision to leave the NATO command structure.

1960s: The People's Republic now arms up with MiG-21s and Su-7s, while the USA supplies Starfighters and F-100s to the Kingdom. The progressive officers keep their promise and introduce gradual democratic reforms and modern policies to the Kingdom. For the next 30 years, each state tries to undermine the other with intelligence ops and propaganda, but the Kingdom, with a better offer and CIA expertise, does better at this than the Republic.

1970s: USA supplies F-5s to the Kingdom, Soviets supply MiG-21bis to the Republic. Kingdom formally joins NATO.

1980s: USA supplies F-16s to the Kingdom, Soviets supply MiG-23s & 27s to the Republic.

1990s: with it's Soviet backers imploding, the Republic suddenly looks shaky, and the (by now obnoxious and oppressive) government is overthrown by a popular revolution. This is quickly followed by moves to unify the two states, and in 1996, on the 60th anniversary of the outbreak of the Civil War, Spain is finally united again.


You can argue about how credible this is (I did do a fair amount of reading to back it up), but it certainly provides plenty of scope for whiffery. I've still got dozens of kits that i bought with thisd in mind and never got around to building.

[zenrat]

Plenty of war surplus Merlin engines to rebuild the Spanish Ju-88s and Heinkel 111s in 1950...

Merlins?  How about Darts...

[The Wooksta!]

'50 is too early, the embargo wasn't lifted till 53.  Plus Spain had bought enough Jumo 211 engines from Poland and France. They didn't need Merlins for their Heinkel until much later.