WW2 Fireship

[tigercat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Lucid

Apparently there was a plan to revive fireships and send a bunch of knackered tankers into harbours withthe German invasion fleet and blow them up.

Unfortunately the only ships that could be sacrificed were so knackered they never made it over

Is there any way they could have made it work .

Were there any convoy survivors that were  so damaged they couldn't be repaired that could have been used but could still get across the channel.

How knackered did a ship have to be before it was written off?

Would it have worked if it was a standard cargo ship packed with explosives rather than a tanker

I'm thinking yes I seem to remember an explosion at an american port in peacetime that caused considerable devastation.


If it had succeeded would the Germans have been much more suspicious when it came time for Operation Chariot and the Campbelltown.

[Mossie]

The St Nazaire raid was along these lines, HMS Campbletown was equipped with explosives and detonated in the dock that was intended to house Tirpitz.  It was a complex raid using Commandos and subterfuge.  Getting any fireship into a dock was going to be difficult but possible as the St Nazaire raid showed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Nazaire_Raid

From what I can gather, the Campbletown was an obscelesent destroyer that had been damaged on several occasions.  Her usefulness was diminished, as was her abilility to absorb further damage and this led to her selection for the raid.

[tigercat]

They didn't suspect that she was packed with explosives. However if we got into the habit of sending ships into their harbours and blowing them up they may have looked harder or tried to tow her away.

[deathjester]

How about submersibles equipped with high powered flamethrowers?

[Mossie]

They didn't suspect that she was packed with explosives. However if we got into the habit of sending ships into their harbours and blowing them up they may have looked harder or tried to tow her away.

Also the defences of the atlantic wall were strengthened as a result, the Germans pretty much closed the door after the raid.

[kitbasher]

From what I can gather, the Campbletown was an obscelesent destroyer that had been damaged on several occasions.  Her usefulness was diminished, as was her abilility to absorb further damage and this led to her selection for the raid.

Campbeltown was indeed very obsolescent - obsolete even - originally the USS Buchanan, and transferred to the Royal Navy in 1940 as part of the Destroyers for Bases Agreement.  See more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Campbeltown_(I42).

I'd not thought of her as a latter day fireship, but it's an excellent analogy.

[raafif]

How about submersibles equipped with high powered flamethrowers?

With a proper crew, Surcouf might have made a good "dragon-ship" ....... renamed the Loch Ness Monster.

After the take-over, her crew were mainly farmers & other non-sailors -- her guns were too complex for submerged work too.

[NARSES2]

Rather then fireships what about blockships ? They were used in WWI at Ostend

[rickshaw]

How about submersibles equipped with high powered flamethrowers?

With a proper crew, Surcouf might have made a good "dragon-ship" ....... renamed the Loch Ness Monster.

After the take-over, her crew were mainly farmers & other non-sailors -- her guns were too complex for submerged work too.

I've always been partial to the RN's M-class submarines.  Armed with a single 12in gun, they were able to surface, just with the tip of the barrel and the periscope above the water, open the muzzle door and fire and then submerge immediately.   While a failure in real life for various reasons, if they'd used them instead of for commerce raiding (their intended role), shore bombardment harassment raids, I don't doubt they'd have made life very hard for the opposition.  You'd never know where or when an M class would surface, fire and disappear again.

[tigercat]

Blockships might work although from the number of French/ Italian  ships that were put back in service after being sunk I get the impression that the Germans were quite good at salvage

[rickshaw]

Block ships are useful for short term blocking of channels.  However, unless they are covered by your fire, the enemy will lift them quite quickly.  Salvage was already a high art by WWII, with all sides able to refloat quite heavily damaged ships, quite quickly.

[NARSES2]

Block ships are useful for short term blocking of channels.  However, unless they are covered by your fire, the enemy will lift them quite quickly.  Salvage was already a high art by WWII, with all sides able to refloat quite heavily damaged ships, quite quickly.

Yup I suppose they would only be temporary

[deathjester]

Block ships are useful for short term blocking of channels.  However, unless they are covered by your fire, the enemy will lift them quite quickly.  Salvage was already a high art by WWII, with all sides able to refloat quite heavily damaged ships, quite quickly.

Yup I suppose they would only be temporary

Not if you build in a time delay depth charge release system...