F-104 & Maneuvering Ability

[kelumden]

A nice site: Harry's Lockheed F104 Starfighters Site: http://www.starfighters.eu

Look at the entry "The Slivers F104G Aero Team Belgium" !

At very low level and at a speed of 800 km/h these two pilots maneuvered their Lockheed F-104G Starfighters with such ability and self-control that they succeeded in crossing each other exactly on a well determined point and this on complete synchronisation.

I saw then at Beauvechain airbase and it was quite impressive to see the two planes crossing at really low-level above the main runway.

[PR19_Kit]

I saw The Slivers at a USAF Open Day at Upper heyford in the 70s.

Heyford has a bump in the ground between the runway and the crowd line and when they did their opposition pass, the upper one inverted and the lower one right way up, we couldn't see the lower aircraft's fuselage at all, just the tailplane zipping across the grass like a supersonic tea-tray! 

[pyro-manic]

Taint by association, I'm afraid.

Though I will admit, the F-104 is a nice-looking plane.

See, I'm exactly the opposite. I'm not particularly fussed about the dodgy dealings - par for the course with defence contracts! - but I can't stand the look of the thing. It looks fat and spindly at the same time! Tiny little wings and big clunky T-tail? Ick. Hideous, hideous machine.

[trekaddict]

I'm sorry, but I can't forgive the Government telling the widows of those pilots go f*ck themselves for ten years, leaving them to sue Lockheed in the US in the vain hope that this might persuade someone in Germany to actually tell them what the hell had killed their husbands. Never mind that one of the Ministers of Defence of that era lost his own sun to the same damn aircraft.  [/rant]

[KJ_Lesnick]

Pellson

I suspect that the need for these flaps became more evident when the a/c was used tactically rather than only as a high speed interceptor.

As I understand it the F-104 was designed as a light-weight fighter with superior speed, acceleration, climb-performance, and altitude to other planes; the interceptor requirement came shortly after.  The aircraft far as I know was always intended to be used tactically (air-superiority).

1: Don't know. can't find anything in Baughers or Goebels writings which I usually find accurate.

I did some checking, and I don't know where I found this, but as I understand it, it was fitted to the LED only (the F-104G).  

Interestingly I'm not sure if they were strengthened or the flight-control system was designed to operate them over a wider range of deflections (i.e. rather than up and down), when the trailing edge devices were modified I have no idea... but they were fitted to the F-104G at some time.


BTW
I found this out doing some research regarding the F-104's maneuvering flaps (I couldn't find when it was fitted), but regardless the F-104G's fitted with maneuvering flaps at takeoff setting could hold 7g in a turn at around 0.85 Mach @ 400-420 kts  It's actually the same as the F-4 Phantom (pre F-4E), however below this speed the F-4 would do better.

[McColm]

The Italians fitted a new engine to theirs before replacing them with loaned F3 Tornadoes until the Eurofighter became operation.

[Weaver]

The Italians fitted a new engine to theirs before replacing them with loaned F3 Tornadoes until the Eurofighter became operation.

The Italian F-104Ss still had J79s, albeing GE-19 versions. They were wired for Sparrows at the expense of the Vulcan and had extra hardpoints and improved avionics.

The leased Tornado F.3s operated alongside the F-104S from 1995 to 2004. The Tornados were then handed back and the F-104Ss were replaced by leased F-16s, since these were felt to be a better lead-in to the Typhoon.

[McColm]

Thanks for that.