Convair Sea Dart - Armament?

[Leading Observer]

Anyone know what the proposed weapon fit was going to be? I'm looking at a 2 pylon 4 missile AIM-9 Sidewinder overwing option on the Mach 2 1/72 kit

[sandiego89]

Go for it!  Like the idea.

Proposed armament for production Sea Darts was to be 2.75 inch folding fin rockets, (44 rockets, 22 per side in wingtip pods) and some sources add four 20mm cannons.  Convair Deltas, by Bill Yenne page 113.

I think cannon and sidewinders are a logical fit if the Sea Dart had made it into squadron service and were in use in the 1960's. 

I used the Mach 2 kit for my below WHIF of a production Sea Dart.  Pretty basic model and typical Mach 2 quality (poor), but best bet for a Sea Dart.  I scratched up some 20 mm cannon ports just aft of the cockpit, similar to the F-8 Crusader, and fitted AIM-9's to the sides of the fuselage. I thought about over the wing mounts like a Jaguar, but all the photos of the Sea Dart showed massive spray over the wings on takeoff and landing, so I positioned them on the fuselage to get the Sidewinders out of the worst of the spray.  I also went with a more conventional canopy. 









Looking forward to your build. 

[scooter]

According to the Wiki article-

the plan was to arm the production aircraft with four 20mm cannon and a battery of folding-fin unguided rockets.[1]

So maybe do modified Lightning-style pylons with a pair of AIM-9 rails?

[PR19_Kit]

Mount the rails either side of the fin?

[Dizzyfugu]

Four 20mm cannons under watertight covers are plausible - AFAIK, such things were considered for other jet flying boat projects of the time, too. But other external ordnance like Sidewinders of FFAR packs seem to be tricky. You will not only have to but them more or less away from the water, there's also potential trouble with exhaust fumes and ingestion for the jets. Really tricky - those side-mounted pylons do not looks bad, but maybe some over-wing pylons (Lightning style) might be the answer, even though they might be pretty long?

[Thorvic]

Its covered in this book i just got :-

http://www.crecy.co.uk/convair-advanced-designs-ii?osCsid=25eecd1e09495a1f8a61430414d4bc81

Only had a glance but the missiles were held in internal bays and flipped out on ejector rails for use, and wait to see the Carrier based Sea Dart  with an undercarriage !!

[scooter]

Only had a glance but the missiles were held in internal bays and flipped out on ejector rails for use

So watertight 102/106 style weapons bay?

[sandiego89]

Its covered in this book i just got :-

http://www.crecy.co.uk/convair-advanced-designs-ii?osCsid=25eecd1e09495a1f8a61430414d4bc81

Only had a glance but the missiles were held in internal bays and flipped out on ejector rails for use, and wait to see the Carrier based Sea Dart  with an undercarriage !!

I can't open that link at work, but I believe the internal missile carriage for the Sea Dart was for the much redesigned, never built, single engine version.  Is that what you are referring to in your book Thorvic?  I find the proposals fascinating, with them operating off a converted CVE with the fantail elevator, catapult etc.  The proposed modifications included a single engine (J79), area ruling, much different fuselage, larger aircraft, single ski, missile bays etc.

Just need to be clear on the timeline we are talking about for Sea Dart armament.  If we are talking about the original twin engine, non area ruled concept for a production version that was odered, then cancelled, the folding fin rockets and 20mm cannon was the plan.  As the thread started with the Mach 2 kit as the basis, this is a more logical starting point.  It would be reasonable to apply externally mounted sidewinders, falcons, rocket pods etc to this design if it went into service. IIRC only when we talk about the much improved single engine proposals do we get to the missile bay concept. Happy to be corrected. Building the proposed single engine Seadart from the MACH 2 kit would be MAJOR surgery. Likely better off starting with a F-102 kit as the basis- something I want to do someday.  Yes I'm a Sea Dart geek- guilty as charged.  

The hull sides of the MACH 2 kit below the wing is pretty flat, as is the bottom 2 sides of the keel, so in WHIF world one could imagine a flip out weapons bay door, but it would be well below the waterline, greatly complicating watertight integrity and rearming.  I can not see where you could realistically do a flip out bay that would be long enough, and above the waterline on the MACH 2 kit.              

[deathjester]

How about conformal overwing pods, each one containing a Sidewinder?  That would get away from the sticky problem of rebuilding/redesigning the jet, and allow for quick rearming and greater simplicity/serviceability.

It would also allow for other stores to be carried, such as SNEB style launchers, and Buddy refuelling packs...

[PR19_Kit]

Cross kitting a Mach 2 Sea Dart and a Meng F-102 may be a good start for a later version perhaps? Assuming one can't get hold of a Hasegawa Dagger of course, and that would save messing with the AWFUL weapons bay doors of the Dagger!

Perhaps Convair spoke to Martin and got some ideas from the Seamaster, which solved the watertight weapons bay door and the at-sea re-armarment problems?