Dive Bombers Big & Small

[aston]

Any idea how it came about / was invented , and did the Luftwaffe know about it? It can't have done the bombers' airframes much good ....?

[Captain Canada]

I'd think the larger the aero the more stable in a dive ? As long as it didn't exceed it's speed/g ratings. Also, holding a large aeroplane in one position for accuracy sounds dangerous.....

[PR19_Kit]

617 Squadron did its own target marking, first with Mossies and then with Mustangs - which were better able to perform dives.

They were a composite squadron?


Runway ? ...

Sort of, they made up their own rules as they went along, and the Mosquito/Mustang target marker idea was a natural extension of the 'get down low to mark more accurately' philosophy.

BTW: Isn't he the same guy that did a lot of work with charity?

Yes, he started the Cheshire Homes for the disabled. See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_Home

He was awarded the VC, was the youngest Group Captain in RAF history, flew as an observer on the Nagasaki raid and was made a Baron  in 1991 for his charity work, an amazing guy. [You can tell I'm a fan....]

[KJ_Lesnick]

aston

Any idea how it came about / was invented , and did the Luftwaffe know about it? It can't have done the bombers' airframes much good ....?

I don't know exactly the origins of it, but the Luftwaffe knew about it and sometimes developed tactics to counter it

It can't have done the bombers' airframes much good ....?

Yes, but a whole bunch of 30 calibur and 20mm rounds are way worse...


PR19 Kit

Yes, he started the Cheshire Homes for the disabled. See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_Home

Didn't also did stuff on conflict management?

He was awarded the VC, was the youngest Group Captain in RAF history

He was about 25 right?

flew as an observer on the Nagasaki raid

Yeah, the B-29 with him on it sat a couple thousand feet higher than everybody else.  He thought they were being overly cautious -- admittedly after serving in Bomber Command anything is cautious!

was made a Baron

What is a baron exactly?

Sort of, they made up their own rules as they went along, and the Mosquito/Mustang target marker idea was a natural extension of the 'get down low to mark more accurately' philosophy.

How big was a typical RAF Bomber and FIghter squadron?

[PR19_Kit]

Yes, he started the Cheshire Homes for the disabled. See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_Home

Didn't also did stuff on conflict management?

Cheshire did all sorts of stuff in that sort of field.

He was awarded the VC, was the youngest Group Captain in RAF history

He was about 25 right?

Could be but I don't know for sure. See more on Cheshire here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Cheshire

was made a Baron

What is a baron exactly?

It's a rank in the peerage of the UK, and other European countries, but you guys over there wouldn't know about things like that of course.  

How big was a typical RAF Bomber and FIghter squadron?

In WWII around 12-16 aircraft, but could be almost anything these days. XV Sqdn, the Tornado training unit at Lossiemouth, is the current largest RAF squadron with twenty six aircraft.

[Runway ? ...]

617 Squadron did its own target marking, first with Mossies and then with Mustangs - which were better able to perform dives.

They were a composite squadron?

They shared a base (Scampton?) with a Mosquito squadron at one point from whence things were "Borrowed".
I don't think the Mustang('s there may have been two) ever had a real home.

[rickshaw]

617 Squadron did its own target marking, first with Mossies and then with Mustangs - which were better able to perform dives.

They were a composite squadron?

They shared a base (Scampton?) with a Mosquito squadron at one point from whence things were "Borrowed".
I don't think the Mustang('s there may have been two) ever had a real home.

One was a personal "gift" to Cheshire from an 8th Air Force fighter squadron.  The other was "acquired", I believe.  I doubt either were ever officially on the books.

[wuzak]

Any idea how it came about / was invented , and did the Luftwaffe know about it? It can't have done the bombers' airframes much good ....?

The corkscrew?

I am not sure where it began, or who invented it. It may have just evolved as a way to try to get out of the searchlights. Or evade trailing fighters.

In either case, a heavy laden bomber was not going to be able to turn or climb to get out of trouble. So diving was the only choice.

No doubt it was stressful for the airframe (not to mention the crew), but the Lancaster was quite sturdy, having been designed for catapult launching.

I'm sure that the Luftwaffe would have known about it, as their night fighters would have experienced a few of them when they were creeping up from behind.

[zenrat]

Once again, Paul Brickhill's "The Dambusters" contains details of marking with Mossie and Mustang.  Including some stuff about jerry rigging bomb racks on the 'stang.
It's definitely worth a read.

[KJ_Lesnick]

PR19_Kit

Could be but I don't know for sure. See more on Cheshire here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Cheshire

25 going on 26...

It's a rank in the peerage of the UK, and other European countries, but you guys over there wouldn't know about things like that of course.  

I know it's a peerage, I don't know what it means.

[wuzak]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron#United_Kingdom_and_the_Commonwealth

In the Peerage of England, Peerage of Ireland, Peerage of Great Britain and the Peerage of the United Kingdom, barons form the lowest rank, placed immediately below viscounts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peerage

The peerage is a legal system of largely hereditary titles in the United Kingdom, which is constituted by the ranks of British nobility and is part of the British honours system. The term is used both collectively to refer to the entire body of noble titles (or a subdivision thereof), and individually to refer to a specific title (and generally has an initial capital in the former case and not the latter). The holder of a peerage is termed a peer.

[KJ_Lesnick]

Wuzak

And only some are for those who were not born as nobility?

[PR19_Kit]

Wuzak

And only some are for those who were not born as nobility?

Those are Life Peers, much more common these days.

[Rheged]

.............and,  honestly,  there is a lavatory in the Houses of Parliament labelled  "PEE'RS ONLY"

[zenrat]