German allies

[Runway ? ...]

imho once the death camps were "liberated" then whatever you paint your afvs with in wouldn't make a lot of difference.
"killed and raped and skins woven into their clothes and if you're lucky they'll do it in that order".
Germany, basically, was going to reap the whirlwind.

[Geoff]

imho once the death camps were "liberated" then whatever you paint your afvs with in wouldn't make a lot of difference.
"killed and raped and skins woven into their clothes and if you're lucky they'll do it in that order".
Germany, basically, was going to reap the whirlwind.

I suspect you are right in part.

[dadlamassu]

I know the RN's unofficial attitude was to fire on any aircraft, or at least be ready to, up until at least late 1943 as prior to that it was almost certainly an enemy - that's dad's story anyway

My father's Beaufighter was shot down by the RN in 1941.  He was later rescued by a RAF launch that came into the minefield to pick the two of them up.

[dadlamassu]

imho once the death camps were "liberated" then whatever you paint your afvs with in wouldn't make a lot of difference.
"killed and raped and skins woven into their clothes and if you're lucky they'll do it in that order".
Germany, basically, was going to reap the whirlwind.

The politicians might have been able to justify an alliance with the Nazis against Communism.  However, given the attitude of nearly every veteran I have spoken to the "only good German is a dead German".  I suspect painting white stars on the AFVs as aiming marks might help this be achieved!

Many soldiers found it difficult to handle when West Germany was admitted to NATO on 9 May 1955. 

[Geoff]

IIRC the attitude of the Russians to the NVA was "Too good not to use, but don't trust 'em"

[eatthis]

imho once the death camps were "liberated" then whatever you paint your afvs with in wouldn't make a lot of difference.
"killed and raped and skins woven into their clothes and if you're lucky they'll do it in that order".
Germany, basically, was going to reap the whirlwind.

iv just got firefly on bluray so i know where you got that line from

[rickshaw]

IIRC the attitude of the Russians to the NVA was "Too good not to use, but don't trust 'em"

I think the Russians definitely wanted them out in front, where they could see them...  

I always found it rather creepy that the NVA adopted the Goose Step as their ceremonial march.  From my understanding, the East Germans never really addressed the Nazi issues post-war with the result you have a lot of that sort of poo-poo (with an english accent) which the West ones thrashed out, still hanging around today in the Eastern states.

[zenrat]

What's the primary identifier for a ground attack pilot?
Shape, colour, identifying marks or a combination?

Location? 

So give them an area on a map and tell them it's OK to kill any vehicles in thaty area?
Makes sense.

When did the sort of close air aupport I see in TV shows like Tour of Duty and movies like Apocralypse Now (where the ground troops call in a strike on a map ref) start?
Korea?

[rickshaw]

What's the primary identifier for a ground attack pilot?
Shape, colour, identifying marks or a combination?

Location? 

So give them an area on a map and tell them it's OK to kill any vehicles in thaty area?
Makes sense.

I was making a joke.   Basically it seems all too often many air forces can't identify the difference between their own and the enemy's troops and instead rely on attacking anything in a grid square.

When did the sort of close air support I see in TV shows like Tour of Duty and movies like Apocralypse Now (where the ground troops call in a strike on a map ref) start?
Korea?

WWI.  What you're seeing there is as you note CAS - Close Air Support where air power is used to help your own troops capture and hold an objective.   In WWI the idea of calling in an air strike really started, first using telephone and then later radio.  The problem was that once the aircraft left the airfield, they were set on their way and the target couldn't be changed and they couldn't be recalled.  It really didn't kick off until voice radio became more portable and could be carried both by ground troops and aircraft and the two could communicate between each other on the way to the battle area and during the strike.  In WWII, this became further refined with the creation of dedicate air liaison officers who moved forward with the troops and directed the aircraft to attack specific targets.  Often they were experienced fighter pilots and travelled in their own armoured vehicles (usually armoured cars).   The British developed the concept of the "cab rank" where fighter-bombers patrolled near the battlefield and were called in.  When they had expended their fuel and/or their weapons, they were replaced by another patrol.   This only became possible when air superiority was essentially total and there were more than sufficient numbers of fighter-bombers which could be dedicated to CAS.

[scooter]

In WWII, this became further refined with the creation of dedicate air liaison officers who moved forward with the troops and directed the aircraft to attack specific targets.  Often they were experienced fighter pilots and travelled in their own armoured vehicles (usually armoured cars).

Patton's entire right flank during Operation Cobra was the 9th Tactical AF.  As Rick pointed out, he had experienced fighter pilots with the troops calling out to the patrolling aircraft.  Granted the Air Corps ALOs were in jeeps, as opposed to armored cars



(Photos shot at NASM this past February)

[zenrat]

Thanks.

[Geoff]

Meanwhile I ave bought a batch of quick build Sturmies for this.

[Geoff]

Many soldiers found it difficult to handle when West Germany was admitted to NATO on 9 May 1955. 

The father of a guy I know did part of the training with the Bundes Luftwaffe. He said it was a creepy feeling knowing a few of the people in the formation behind him,10 years earlier would have shot him down and considered it a good days work.

[Geoff]

I think I am going to go with an earlier German army post war. The Republic was set up in '49, and the airlift was '48. Perhaps things stated to get out of hand on the inner-German border and the Bundesgrenschutz came into existence in 1949 instead of 1951, and with a heavy support company?