Air Force breakdowns...

[strobez]

I don't know if this would be considered on topic or not, so apologies if I've gone too far afield here.  However, one of my side-projects is actually translating the Area 88 manga into English (from Japanese via Korean) and sometimes I run into some translation issues.

When Saki is explaining the breakdown of the newly reformed Area 88, he uses the following (english equivalent) terms:

4 companies
36 to a company
12 to a platoon
4 to a squad

144 men total

anyone got a better way to describe this... using air force terminology (especially in a middle-eastern country)

Thanks

[scooter]

I don't know if this would be considered on topic or not, so apologies if I've gone too far afield here.  However, one of my side-projects is actually translating the Area 88 manga into English (from Japanese via Korean) and sometimes I run into some translation issues.

When Saki is explaining the breakdown of the newly reformed Area 88, he uses the following (english equivalent) terms:

4 companies
36 to a company
12 to a platoon
4 to a squad

144 men total

anyone got a better way to describe this... using air force terminology (especially in a middle-eastern country)

Thanks

Trying to figure this particular quandary out is odd, because, generally, air forces don't use platoons.  That being said, when I went through the USAF Security Police's Airbase Ground Defense course (taught by the US Army, at Ft Dix) 30 years ago, we were broken up into typical Army units and formations.  And even in our base exercises at Grand Forks AFB, we were organized mainly at the fire team level, outside of our elements and flights.

The best conversion I can think of is 1 squadron, of 4 elements, with 3 squads of 4 fire teams/squad.

[strobez]

Well, it's likely just an issue of translation.  The Japanese/Korean equivalents in English don't quite match... but the number breakdown is clear 4x3 = 12, 12x3 = 36, 36x4 = 144.  I'm just looking for some air force-ish words that would best describe that breakdown.

[Logan Hartke]

I'm not really familiar with the manga, but those personnel numbers would typically translate into one level higher than the original translation.

4 platoons
36 to a platoon
12 to a squad
4 to a fire team

144 men total (1 company)


I can't speak to the Middle Eastern flavor, but scooter's right that some air forces like to maintain their own terminology even to ground forces. In that case you might end up with something like the following:

4 flights
36 to a flight
12 to an element
4 to an fire team

144 men total (1 squadron)

Like many air forces, too, you can mix and match the terminology to suit your tastes.

[strobez]

Well, since it's a manga based on the Foreign (mercenary) Forces of the Fictional Royal Asran Air Force... it really doesn't matter.  I'm just looking for an English-language equivalent that wouldn't be totally ridiculous. This has been very helpful, thanks!

[perttime]

For ground based troops Logan's terms fit the numbers:

4 platoons
36 to a platoon
12 to a squad
4 to a fire team

And 4 platoons would make a Company.

[Spey_Phantom]

i think the setup is more similar to a jagdgeschwader of the ww2 Luftwaffe.
i think this video example can explain the reorganisation of Area 88:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-yKEdtMv0o

so, from a standpoint, rather then a squadron, Area 88 could be seen as a Wing.

[dadlamassu]

Air Force terminology might be:

4 aircraft to a Section or Swarm
3 Sections to a Flight
3 Flights to a Squadron
4 Squadrons to a Wing

[perttime]

Air Force terminology might be:

4 aircraft to a Section or Swarm
3 Sections to a Flight
3 Flights to a Squadron
4 Squadrons to a Wing

Depends on organisation and time period. A Squadron now typically has 12 to 24 aircraft. 2 or more Squadrons form a Group or Wing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squadron_(aviation)

[PR19_Kit]

Unless it's the RAF when only half a dozen will do to be a Squadron in some cases.

[strobez]

This is really helpful.  Of course the Kingdom of Asran (Middle East, circa 1981) is fictional, but Area 88, at first, was just the name of the base where a ragtag assortment of foreign mercenaries were stationed.  Missions were more or less pieced together based on who wanted to go and what kind of equipment (fighter planes) they had at their disposal. There were some "families" of self-assembled teams, but nothing particularly formal. Attack leaders were assigned mission of mission.

After the base is destroyed, Area 88 became the name of a unit, still made up of mercenaries, but reformed under the Asran Air Force proper (and no longer a special unit reporting directly to the Royal family). The biggest change is that the mercenaries are given official ranks - meaning they are now subject to all the rules and responsibilities (and privileges) that come with it.

So the three main pilots (Shin, Mickey, and Greg) and one largely unknown minor character (Leroy) become Captains, and have seconds assigned to them as Lieutenants. The breakdown of the forces (144 men in total) is as above, with Captains commanding 36 men.  Above them, were Major Roundel (ex RAF) and Lt. Colonel Saki Vashtar.

But since the groupings are really Japanese words, the best I could manage were the Korean and then English equivalents.  But, to my uneducated ears, they sounded more army than Air Force.

[Old Wombat]

Oh-kay, what I'm seeing is the following;

4 x aircraft to a Section (4 aircraft = a WW2 RAF Flight)
3 x Sections to a Flight (12 aircraft = a WW2 RAF Squadron)
3 x Flights to a Squadron (36 aircraft = a WW2 RAF (small) Wing)
4 x Squadrons to a Wing (144 aircraft = a WW2 RAF (big) Wing or a Group)



As a comparison; once the RAF fighter boys (some elements of them, anyway) saw the light & adopted the "Finger-4" formation they generally/roughly had;

4 x aircraft to a Flight (4) ... Flight Lieutenant (a "Section" was a 1/2 Flight one of which was commanded by the Flight Lieutenant, the other by a Flying Officer)
3 x Flights to a Squadron (12) ... Squadron Leader (who also commanded one of the Flights)
3 or 4 Squadrons to a Wing (36 or 48) ... Wing Commander (who also commanded one of the Squadrons, numbers somewhat dependent on role)
2 to 4 Wings to a Group (72 to 192) ... Group Captain (note that the Group size was highly variable & had more to do with where the aircraft were based & their role than it did to any actual number, & the Group Captain was an administrative, rather than operational, role)



PS: It's probably, also, a good idea to point out that this structure did not relate to Bomber Command, where Wing Commanders were generally in command of Squadrons, & it doesn't take into account the non-flying officers & other ranks who maintained the aircraft, fed the personnel, etc.

[Gondor]

In lots of countries around the world they simply use the same military ranks for their Air Forces as well as their Army so using the same rank structure could easily be correct.

Gondor

[Old Wombat]

In lots of countries around the world they simply use the same military ranks for their Air Forces as well as their Army so using the same rank structure could easily be correct.

Gondor

True, generally because their air forces are either part of, or grew out of their armies. Maybe look at the USAF ranks?

The RAF's ranking system came about, in part, to integrate the ranks of the RNAS & RFC personnel who were brought together to form the RAF.

[jcf]

Most pilots in the US fixed wing forces are officers, the USAF and USMC having the same
officer's* rank structure, the USN having their own structure.

USAF/USMC
2nd Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
Captain
Major
Lieutenant Colonel
Colonel
Brigadier General ☆
Major General☆☆
Lieutenant General☆☆☆
General☆☆☆☆
General of the Army/General of the Air Force☆☆☆☆☆ (no USMC 5 star)

USN
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Lieutenant
Lieutenant Commander
Commander
Captain
Rear Admiral (Lower Half)☆ historically also referred to as Commodore
Rear Admiral☆☆
Vice Admiral☆☆☆
Admiral☆☆☆☆
Fleet Admiral☆☆☆☆☆

*US enlisted ranks vary between the services