Mirage 4000-E for the CAF

[Davey B]

Hmm, RAF instead of the bloody Tornado F.3?  Follow-on from the Jaguar project, naturally  

Saudi?  Egyptian?  Australian?    

[SebastianP]

Lets keep this realistic, please. The RAF is unlikely to ever buy French, or collaborate with them again after the screwover that was the Jaguar project (basically the Brits and French had different requirements for the Jaguar, and the French stopped development more or less once they had their own version - if I read the story right).

The possible customers I can see for a French twin-engined fighter/multi-role aircraft in the appropriate timeframe (late 70's, early 80's), are Australia, Canada, and Spain (all of whom got first-gen Hornets), the ROK and ROC (who are iffy, given their strong ties to the US), India, and Chad (traditional Dassault customers at the time). Israel might have tried for licensing rights and made their own version, like the Mirage III/Kfir thing.

None of the above would buy the plane unless the French did first, though...

SP

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

Thanks you for your replies... It help me to draw a plan in my head of what a world with more heavy fighter could be...

I will keep all your good ideas, Sebastian and Davey!!
Spain, Egyptian, ROC (you mean Taïwan, right?) etc...
For Saudi and Australian Mirage 4000, they are already done
But for Chad, even if they always buy French, they never had a real main fighter... France assure their defense...

None of the above would buy the plane unless the French did first, though...

Yes!! Good point you noticed!
I really think that a lot of things could be now different if only France bought the Mirage 4000...
I have already three post about Mirage 4000 (on the French Mirage 4000N/G, RSAF and RAAF)  and I explain in them that the first foreign customer (Canada and Iraq, few month later) came AFTER the French order for Mirage 4000N.

I think it could really does the different. The Mirage 4000 was very able, maybe as good as the Su-27 and F-15 and clearly better than the F/A-18...
Some countries wanted a twin-engined fighter to replaced their F-4 (I thought about Turkey, Egypt) and both USSR and USA didn't really want to sell them the F-15 an Su-27...
The F-18 was ready for export market (idem for the Mig-29) but for a cheaper price, a lot of country prefered the very good F-16...

But if we imagine that Greece replaced it's Mirage F-1 and F-4 with Mirage 4000, Turkey could have bought the F-15.
-If India went for the Mirage 4000, Pakistan could want the F-15 or the F/A-18C...
-Iraq already planed to deal with the F-16/F-14 dual threaten in Iran with a couple of heavy/light fighters (Mirage 4000 & 2000 were good placed)...
-And if all the countries around went for heavy fighters, Qatar could go for the Mirage 4000 instead of the 2000 (they always bought French in the past).
-And if India buy Mirage 4000, China will want Su-27... And so Taïwan needs Mirage 4000 or F-15...
That's only few examples...

And I'm OK to say that the Mirage 4000 could be a good choice for Spain, instead of the F/A-18...


So, for the moment, concerning the twin-engines and heavy fighters, I have:

EUROPE:
-Mirage 4000: France, Spain, Greece
-Tornado: UK, Italy, Germany
-F/A-18: Switzerland, Finland
-F-15: USAFE, Turkey

NEAR & MIDDLE EAST:
-Mirage 4000: Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt, Qatar
-F-15: Israël, Turkey, Saudi Arabia
-F/A-18: Kuwait
-F-14: Iran
-Su-27: Syria, Algeria, Lybia
(UAE chose to buy more Mirage 2000)

ASIA & SOUTH PACIFIC:
-F-15: Pakistan, Japan, South Korea (F-15A/C), Singapour (F-15A)
-Mirage 4000: India, Taïwan, Australia
-Su-27: China (a LOT of Su-27!!), Indonesia
-F/A-18: Malaysia

AMERICA: (uncomplete)
-Mirage 4000: Canada...
-F-15: USA...

OK, I think I had a lot of job to do with this!!! And I haven't though about South America!!


Another time: thank you all!!


PS: when everything will be finished, I think I will do a big topic in the Alternative History forum

[Davey B]

As I remember it, the main problem with the Jag was that Breguet got swallowed up by Dassault just as it was entering service.  Dassault didn't want to share any profits with BAC so tried to market the Mirage F.1A to potential Jaguar customers.

So how about Hawker Siddley collaborating with Dassault-Breguet in the late 70s, just prior to nationalisation?  Could work  

Besides which, France was originally in on the EFA project, so anything's possible...