TSR 2 in service date

[waynos]

This might impact a few what if models out there, I read an interview with Jimmy Dell today and in it he reckons that the likely in service date for the Eagle GR.1 (no, he didn't call it that) was about 1974-75, same as Jaguar. This would surely mean that any in service models should only show B type roundels?

*retreats, with trepidation*

[nev]

Don't think it would have been that late.  I'll leave it to the experts, but planes didn't take 10 years to get into service back in the 60s...

[waynos]

Well Jimmy Dell was the chief test pilot of the programme so, although it surprised me, he is speaking from a position of some knowledge of the job ahead.  

[nev]

have a browse on Thunderandlightnings.co.uk, they have a bit of info on the TSR2.  I would have thought '68 would be more like it.

[DamienB]

I know in 1963 they were expecting first flight in January 1964 and an initial release to service in late 1966. With the delays caused by engine problems pushing that first flight back and assuming various delays throughout flight testing had it not been cancelled just as it was getting interesting, I'd say 1968 too - though perhaps realistically 1969 or 1970.

[uk 75]

I think this is quite an interesting revelation. One of the key arguments that swayed Denis Healey against the three aircraft projects in 1965 was, apart from the key one of out of control costs, the late in-service dates that the manufacturers were finally admitting to.

Although the first TSR 2 airframes were largely, but not entirely, problem free, there is much evidence that Ferranti and other electronics contractors were pretty much out of their depth. Although flying airframes might have been with an OCU by 1969-70 it is highly likely that the TSR2 would have suffered the same systems problems as the F111, probably worse as the UK industry was already many years behind the US.  Its weapons systems suchas the Martel missile and WE177 bomb were also late in service.

I reckon Jimmy Dell is probably letting a cat out of the bag. Did he mention Tornado as a possible name for the beast I wonder?

UK 75

[XV107]

Could I ask where the interview was published, please?  

[elmayerle]

I think this is quite an interesting revelation. One of the key arguments that swayed Denis Healey against the three aircraft projects in 1965 was, apart from the key one of out of control costs, the late in-service dates that the manufacturers were finally admitting to.

Although the first TSR 2 airframes were largely, but not entirely, problem free, there is much evidence that Ferranti and other electronics contractors were pretty much out of their depth. Although flying airframes might have been with an OCU by 1969-70 it is highly likely that the TSR2 would have suffered the same systems problems as the F111, probably worse as the UK industry was already many years behind the US.  Its weapons systems suchas the Martel missile and WE177 bomb were also late in service.

I reckon Jimmy Dell is probably letting a cat out of the bag. Did he mention Tornado as a possible name for the beast I wonder?

UK 75

If memory of what I've read serves, there's also a good chance that the main gear would need redesign to drastically reduce sideloads.

[DamienB]

Could I ask where the interview was published, please?

It's in the current issue of Aircraft Illustrated.

[XV107]

Ta!

[waynos]

Yes, latest AI, sorry, I should have said.

No potential names were mentioned (I was hoping he would) but he also said that the undercarriage was actually perfectly fine and was blown up to be more of a problem than it really was, it did cause trouble but it was working properly by the time the axe fell.

Regarding the in service date, the interviewer even tried to nudge him by offering 'early seventies' as an option but he said 'no, mid seventies'. It seems that this was entirely down to the systems, not the aircraft itself from the way he said it.