Dewoitine D-520 Ideas.

[Archibald]

I'm currentlly working on Dewoitine fighters for the board "la france continue.org" (france keep fighting from North Africa after june 1940, I think Bill slim is also member of this board...)

The D-520 was the best fighter available in may 1940. Emile Dewoitine had a big numbers of derivatives on its drawing board.
Basic D-520 only had a 920 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45 engine. To rise performances, three ways were explored

- foreign engines. D-521 had a Merlin III, D-522 an Allison V-1710!

- More powerful Hispano-suiza 12- . The 12Y-51 had 1100 hp, and brand new 12Z, 1300 hp or more.
12Y-51 D-520 was the D-523.
12Z      D-520 was the D-524.

- smaller and lighter D-520 : this become the mighty D-551, which had a 12Y-51.

The late D-600 was a new machine designed around the 12Z, and become the
HA-50 in Spain.

That's a lot of aircrafts and projects!    

Let's concentrate on the D-523 and D-551, both having the 12Y-51 engine. Interestingly, this engine was build by the Swiss for their "super Morane-Saulnier 406", the EKW D-3800 series of fighters.

This mean that, if french governement decide to fought back from North africa with some D-520s, there's a way of developing Dewoitine follow-ons.

More to come!

[Archibald]

Around 300  D-520s are send to North Africa in late June 1940. These aircrafts are improved with Swiss engines, becoming D-523s.

They are replaced by NA-73 Mustang in front line service, circa 1941, and goes into storage. In late 1942, they are sold to USSR. Russian are so kind of the type that Stalin order Sukhoi to produce a local D-520 with a Klimov M-105, itself a derivative of the HS 12Y engine!

Dewoitine goes to Argentina as in OTL, but in 1942 rather than 1945.
Argentina secure an order for 12Y-51 engines build by Saurer AG. First aircraft produced by Dewoitine is the D-523, with tooling saved from France.
Then, production swap to the D-551, smaller and lighter, with much better overall performances (similar to a Spitfire IX).
Armement is 3*HS-404 guns of the british type (belt fed, not drums).

In 1945, Dewoitine and its team are fired by the Argentinian governement in favor of Kurt Tank. They come back to France.
Interestingly, in OTL the team which created the Fouga Magister trainer was none other than the former Dewoitine technical staff. Robert Castello was the man which desingled both the D-520 and the Magister.

So in 1945, the French Air Force buy a lot of Fouga D-551s. But that's not the end of the story...

First aircraft of the Patrouille de France is none other than the D-551, circa 1948 (in OTL it was the Ouragan circa 1952).

Then, Dewoitines fighters are sold abroad. First french aircraft in Israeli service in 1948 is a D-551 (much better than the S-199!). 50 second-hand aircrafts are sold to the Jewish state.

Then in 1954 the Algerain war breakout. The Dewoitine D-551 is fitted with
tip-tanks, rocket pods, bombs, and four DEFA-554 guns in the wings. A COIN Dewoitine!
Last but not least, with so much D-550s so late in the century (up to 1960), a lot of them survived.

In OTL a D-520 was restored to flight status in 1981, but it crashed tragically in 1986, killing its pilot Christian Bove     This did not improve reputation of warbird movement in France, and we still pay the price of this crash today    

[GTX]

This mean that, if french governement decide to fought back from North africa with some D-520s, there's a way of developing Dewoitine follow-ons.

Only if substantial spares or a factory was also sent to Africa - otherwise you wan't be getting much support from occupied France.  Maybe if the aircraft were modified to use allied systems, engines etc - maybe a Merlin or similar or even a Radial engine of some sort?

Regards,

Greg

[Daryl J.]

Has anyone seen the D-520 based floatplane that POMK did?

The 12Y was capable of up to 1300 hp?   That does open doors.   There's a couple of D-520's in the stash with the interiors completed save for seatbelts and when they were done 5-6 years ago, I'd hoped to do something spurious with them.  

Then, along came the twins.

The kits are safe and at rest.     That might have to change soon.


Daryl J.

[Hotte]

And Vichy-France?

Vichy, a axis State   , modified the D. 520 with DB 605 or BMW 801.
The new fighter send to Finland, Swiss and Italy !

Hotte

[GTX]

Well, what do you know - apparently there was a proposed D.530 version with a 1,400 hp Rolls-Royce Merlin or a 1,800 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y.  Also there was apparently a Seaplane derivative (the HD.780) and Carrier version (the D.790) planned as well.

A BMW 801 powered derivative would be interesting as well.

Regards,

Greg

[Archibald]

Has anyone seen the D-520 based floatplane that POMK did?

The 12Y was capable of up to 1300 hp?   That does open doors.   There's a couple of D-520's in the stash with the interiors completed save for seatbelts and when they were done 5-6 years ago, I'd hoped to do something spurious with them.  

Then, along came the twins.

The kits are safe and at rest.     That might have to change soon.


Daryl J.

Nope, the 12 Z was something new  
Maximum power of a 12Y was something like 1200 hp at best.

This mean that, if french governement decide to fought back from North africa with some D-520s, there's a way of developing Dewoitine follow-ons.

Oops, too much enthusiasm. You're right, there's no way of building an aircraft in Northern Africa.
That's why I suppose that Dewoitine goes to Argentina    

By the way, in the board I mentioned, france fight until the end, Ie 15th August 1940.
The D-520 was build in the South, in Toulouse. So the town is defended until 20th July 1940, then D-520 tooling is carefully carried to Northern Africa. There's still no way of building Dewoitine there by lack of subconctractors, but at least tooling is available for another country...

Maybe if the aircraft were modified to use allied systems, engines etc - maybe a Merlin or similar or even a Radial engine of some sort?

That's exactly what they try to do with the Allison-powered D-522, building it in the USA.  
Alas, that's way too difficult, and they finally decide to buy P-40, then Mustangs instead of building more Dewoitines.

[Daryl J.]

So a Klimov engined D-520 would have been built by Dewoitinov, a branch of Suchoj?  


Would a smaller, lighter D-520 have a Watts-like two blade wood prop and spatted fixed gear?    The lines of that  would present publically very well.    

Apparantly the Tamiya kit has the radiator in the wrong position and is quite errant in shape as are the spinners for the props.   Already, the kit is in position for whiffery using factory parts (or slightly modified for that matter.)


,
Daryl J.

[Archibald]

Would a smaller, lighter D-520 have a Watts-like two blade wood prop and spatted fixed gear?

This existed, and was called the... D-510!  

The D-501 flew in 1932, it had spats (Briaaaan...where are you?), 12X engine and opened cockpit.
The D-510 was an improved variant with the 12Y engine (which later went to the
D-520).

They directly led to the D-520 and its siblings.

So a Klimov engined D-520 would have been built by Dewoitinov, a branch of Suchoj?

Exactement! Albeit I thought about "Dewoitineski" for the name    
Sukhoi produced few aircrafts in WWII, so maybe the firm could have build the Klimov-Dewoitine...  the M-105 had 1250 hp, but the late VK-107 had 1650 hp.
A D-551 with such engine woud have been pure speed  

Btw, swiss firm Saurer and Klimov proved that the french 12Y and 12Z series had as much growth potential as the Merlin or DB-601, up to 1600 hp.

[Brian da Basher]

There was a Klimov engined D-501. This was originally a stock D-501 that made its way to Republican Spain, albeit minus the famous cannon that fired through the propellor hub. After it suffered a mishap, it was re-engined with a Klimov.

And the spats on the D-501 are gorgeous!

Brian da Basher

[Zero-Sen]

[Zero-Sen]

[NARSES2]

I do like the 521  Perfectly plausible as well with the way the French re-engined their designs.