F-5, CF-5, T-38, and F-20

NaOH · June 07, 2005, 09:07:08 PM

Well I will not promise to build this but here's what's on the burner for the next project.

CF-20

Back in the early 90's Canada decided to retire the CF-5 series of fighters. Due to budget restrictions the government was shy to buy three more squadrons of CF-18's to replace 434, 419 and 433 squadron who were NATO tasked for the defense of Norway.

After some time it was decided to licence produce through Canadair the F-20 Tigershark. Air and ground crews were familiar with the family and it had the same engine as the current CF-18 fleet.

Although Sparrow missle carriage was wired into the aircraft it was used for attack with the CRV-7 rocket, US and Huntington CBU's, and 500 pound Snake Eye bombs (along with the AIM-9M for self defence). A Recce pod was later added and LGB and Maverick were carried in early 2000 when they were aquired for the CF-18 fleet. For long range interdiction and ferry flights to Europe (each squadron spent three weeks in Norway per year) two drop tanks were often carried on the inboard pylons with the Northrop bolt on refueling probe.

Paint and markings were the same as the last CF-5 scheme (toned down markings on a three tone grey wrap around scheme).

elmayerle · June 07, 2005, 10:53:38 PM

I like, but then I was at Northrop when that one was being worked on. I'm looking to hybridize mine with a F-5F to do a two-seater. Of course, if you wanted something really different, I've a scheme for a three-seater that could be used mainly as a courier aircraft.

Editted Note: The three-seat courier aircraft splices the front cockpit of a T-38/F-5B on to a F-5F front end and does a new canopy for the middle seat.

PS. If anyone needs the info on where to trim bits to splice front ends where Northrop does, feel free to drop me a message (PM, email, etc.).

Radish · June 08, 2005, 12:56:40 AM

Rather like the CF-20 idea, but then again, the Tigershark's one of my favourite aircraft.

Neeat in the CAF greys too.
What about one in that grey Tiger scheme as used on the Hornet?

PolluxDeltaSeven · June 08, 2005, 09:44:39 AM

And what about a F-20E, a derivated F-20 with the X-29 wings??

I think with an extended wing, it's possible to have 3 hardpoint for each wings (+ 2 for the Sidewinder at wings' end)
With a centrel hardpoint and one pod's pylon under each air-intakes, it could be a good fighter-bomber, don't you think?

Captain Canada · June 08, 2005, 03:37:50 PM

For me, the X-29 ( CF-117A and B ) was a colaboration between the Russians and us.....using the scrapped X-29 program, combined with info from the Berkut, we produced our -117s as a lightweight fighter, guarding the major cities and ports, etc.

:f16:

elmayerle · June 08, 2005, 05:59:59 PM

QuoteI'm trying to be as realistic as possible. For me an X-29/F-20 hybrid isn't something that the CAF would have spent money on.

Given that the X-29A used the cockpit and forward fuselage section from a F-5A, I can see a production derivative using the equivalent portions of a F-20 to make a good fighter; much as the proposal for a F-20/lavi hybrid looked at much the same approach of blending Northrop's specailties with IAI's.

Son of Damian · May 13, 2006, 06:42:53 PM

Several months ago I came across a picture at airliners.net of a photo of a F-5E Tiger II US Navy aggressor parked on the ramp. I noticed that just behind it there was the tail of another F-5 with a strange sort of white and grey camo. I saw it again in the backround of another picture of a F-5 aggressor which revealed more of the plane but still I can see as much as I would have liked. Until today when I found a picture of this mysterious beast and it was beautiful. And it is without a doubt the coolest scheme I have ever seen on a US Navy F-5 aggressor!!! B)

And whats even better is that you can get a print of it via airliners.net, which is something I plan to do in the near future.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0928...RFP&photo_nr=26

Though I am perplexed by the fact that I have been able to find only one good picture of the aircraft. Considering the number of pictures you can for the other aggressor aircraft you can only find one of this aircraft and its unique camouflage scheme.

ysi_maniac · October 23, 2007, 06:02:58 AM

I am considering an early F-20, designed 10 years before, powered by J79. A more ambitious F-5E I would say.

ysi_maniac · October 24, 2007, 05:12:48 AM

Another posibility:
Moderately swept wings and tail planes, taken from an A-7 maybe.

ysi_maniac · October 25, 2007, 05:49:52 AM

N-300 (1966) and P-530 (1967) were two steps in the way from F-5 to F-17

N-300: F-5 with wings in shoulder of intake trunks, and lerx not covering intakes
P-530 the same but lerx covering intakes

Thinking on building both. More info or comments?
Thanks.

elmayerle · October 25, 2007, 09:47:34 PM

If you can find a drawing anywhere (and I don't guarantee you can), the wing from the Northrop N-285B with greater sweep and area than the F-5 wing (needed for the intended naval usage) would be great. I've only seen one brochure on it, while I was at Northrop, and I wasn't in a position to copy it.

nev · October 26, 2007, 04:11:43 AM

ROKAF

Luftwaffe (BIG wing)

ysi_maniac · October 26, 2007, 06:34:00 AM

QuoteIf you can find a drawing anywhere (and I don't guarantee you can), the wing from the Northrop N-285B with greater sweep and area than the F-5 wing (needed for the intended naval usage) would be great. I've only seen one brochure on it, while I was at Northrop, and I wasn't in a position to copy it.

In this book: http://www.amazon.com/Northrop-F-5-F-20-T-...93405657&sr=8-2
I saw an artist's impression, from a brochure I think, of a two seater. The text states that it has swept wings; but that point is not evident and it looks to me like a T-38. Anyway I was thinking in wings taken from an A-7 (1/72 or 1/100). What do you think?

ysi_maniac · October 26, 2007, 06:57:47 AM

In a last attempt to save F-20, Northrop offered to sell complete project to a manufacturer. What-if Aeritalia/Fiat offers this plane to Aeronautica Militare to stop gap between F-104 and Eurofighter?

About 2015 they decide to reengine them with EJ-200, that is similar: a bit smaller (in diameter and length), but more powerful.

elmayerle · October 26, 2007, 09:13:02 PM

Quote
QuoteIf you can find a drawing anywhere (and I don't guarantee you can), the wing from the Northrop N-285B with greater sweep and area than the F-5 wing (needed for the intended naval usage) would be great. I've only seen one brochure on it, while I was at Northrop, and I wasn't in a position to copy it.
In this book: http://www.amazon.com/Northrop-F-5-F-20-T-...93405657&sr=8-2
I saw an artist's impression, from a brochure I think, of a two seater. The text states that it has swept wings; but that point is not evident and it looks to me like a T-38. Anyway I was thinking in wings taken from an A-7 (1/72 or 1/100). What do you think?

I'd work carefully. Yes, it was primarily a two-seat trainer for the USN with adaptability as a single-seat light attack aircraft. The wing was swept, but ISTR that the overall span wasn't much, if any, greater than a standard F-5/T-38. I do remember that it had a definitely greater area to get the approach speed and angle down to something that was acceptable to the USN.

Of course, Northrop did explore lots of variations on this family, both by themselves and, in at least one instance, in collaboration. They did conduct a study of a blend of F-20(then still called F-5G) and the early, F404-powered, Lavi studies to produce a hybrid that would be less expensive to develop than an all-new Lavi. Depending on the amount of F-5G structure retained, there were two different versions.

Oh, and whoever mentioned coverting single-seat F-5s to two-seaters, it's fairly easy since there's a production break right aft of the cockpit. Depending on just how operational you want the two-seater to be, you either use essentially a T-38/F-5B forward fuselage or a F-5F forward fuselage.