F-5, CF-5, T-38, and F-20

[Wyrmshadow]

Took me a while to find the right thread.

I was just watching Aircraft Stories:Sweden, when I got an idea.

Anyone thought about making a Gripen into an F-20? Gripen fuseladge and F-20 wings and tails?

[sotoolslinger]

Cool idea Wyrm I plan on building an F-5 with Draken wings

[kitnut617]

Getting involved last year with a design to mount a real CF-116 on a display pole which is now at The Military Museum in Calgary, I can ascertain to the problems of installing bigger engines.  There's not a lot of room in there plus there's the added fact that making the engines longer wouldn't help either, the rear engine mounts being right at the tail pipe/tail plane join line.

Here's a couple of pics of the mounting system we used on CF-116707, there's a few CF-116's mounted like this around Canada, but they're all developing problems with the bolting of the pole to the airframe, they're gradually getting battered by the wind and the airframes are getting wrecked, I had to come up with a better connecting system which was excepted by the powers-that-be. (CAF I think)

[elmayerle]

Took me a while to find the right thread.

I was just watching Aircraft Stories:Sweden, when I got an idea.

Anyone thought about making a Gripen into an F-20? Gripen fuseladge and F-20 wings and tails?

In many respects, the Gripen is what the F-20 should've been.  Actually, the closest you could come to the F-20 today is the Korean A-50 attack version of their T-50 trainer; same engine, same radar, etc.  Of course, there's also a study Northrop/Norair did that looked at a reduced-cost approach to the Lavi by using major portions of the F-20.

[Sauragnmon]

I stumbled on some thought a while ago, of an Iranian F-20, though altered, somewhat like the Azarkash or Saeqaeh.  They're good at reverse engineering concepts, part of me thought of an F-20 re-engined with an RD-33 Turbofan.  It was a vague concept of an idea, and it sounded like it might look interesting to me.  Somebody suggested the RD-33 because it has similar dimensions, I'm not an expert on it, but I thought it might look interesting, just enough to throw the casual observer off and make them wonder "that doesn't look right..." to themselves.  I might do it, cannibalize one of my less-than-good condition MiG-29's and use the other engine for my MiG-21-97 build project.

[Sauragnmon]

I think you're thinking of the Thunder, not the Azarkash.  Azarkash was their first domestic fighter project, which bears a lot of similarities, but is still different from, the F-5.  Differences like the intake geometry, the fact it has a single tail.  The Saeqeh is ironically very similar to the F-17 in some respects, and different in others, like the low-mounted wing.  I'd probably have to make similar alterations to the intakes and other parts of the airframe, but I thought it would look interesting, even if their next gen is closer to the MiG LFI concept than anything.

[Sauragnmon]

A lot of the Iranian recent aircraft, outside of the MiG LFI design, are built up off the F-5 airframe.  But the thing is, they bought the aircraft, so technically it's not a breach of contract if they modify the planes in house.  The closest would be the first trainer bird they built, which was pretty much a reverse engineered F-5 Trainer bird.  The other two are a little more towards the level of modification of a F-20 with regards to the airframe.  But it would still be interesting.  As to the engine being a 404, I doubt it, since they don't exactly have a supply of the engine.  They've got warmer relations with Russia, and do have MiG-29's in service, so they might be able to just pull RD-33's off the Fulcrums for the concept work.

I don't know, it's really just a big Whif job for me, and I'm in the realm of pure conjecture somewhere.

[Shasper]

It could be worse. . . Imagine trying to shoe-horn a F110 or a AL31 into the F-20's airframe:








Shas

[Sauragnmon]

Hmm, yeah that would be slightly more troublesome, unless you were to widen the whole assembly, swell out a little space on the undercarriage, and lift the fuse up into the tail strut some... round it out a little more, so you just barely skin over the engine.  Nice expansion on the intake ducts, btw.  That looks pretty sweet.

[Shasper]

Intakes were donated by a hapless X-29 kit.

Shas

[Sauragnmon]

I see... well yeah, it'd still be an interesting idea to have an Iranian-style F-20.  Round out the intakes some, smooth the look over, use an RD-33 engine in it, maybe put beside it a Super-20 with an AL-31 engine in it.  I don't know, I'm tumbling ideas around in my head here.  AL-31, Forward swept wings... hmm... leaves an idea clunking there...

[Shasper]

Maybe this will stimulate your neurons:





Its an X-29, but can you spot the changes?


While we're at it, here's what I think an export-standard F-20 might have looked like:





Shas

[Sauragnmon]

X-29 - extensions over the intakes, removal of any aft stabilizer positions, altered vertical empennage.  I think you either shortened the rudder, or extended the assembly under it.  You've drilled a hole forward of the wing mounting position, so I would surmise you're considering a canard/FSW concept?

F-20 - I think you extended the LERX, as well as the intakes, and they look like you also expanded them upwards, I think.

[Shasper]

X-29 - You're on the right track, I did do a rudder transplant & add the LEX, and it will be a Canard/FSW. What else?

F-20 - LERXs and Intakes are stock & unchanged. Main changes are in the Vert. Stabilizer & nose areas.


Shas

[elmayerle]

Shas,

Going for a more pointed look on the F-20?  That nose looks longer than usual to me as well as more pointy than I remember the F-20 being.

Regardng variations on a theme, I'm thinking of crossing T-38 and F-5F forward fuselages onto a F-20 to make a three-seat "communications" airacraft, perhaps a VF-20 for fast transport of select staff/VIP personnel?