F-101 (and XF-88) Voodoo

[dy031101]

My mistake- it should have been the F3H-2/F-3B, version fitted to use the AIM-7C Sparrow III...... unless its FCS indeed is a development of that used by the F3H-2M/MF-3B.

Or maybe this would've been a scenario for a country not deemed by the US to be on its list of business partners- instead of selling a Sparrow-III-capable system, the US only allowed the export of its predecessor, leaving that country to develop compatibility for either Aspide, Skyflash, or an indigenous reverse-engineering effort......?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

The two attached images show the location of the wing mounted stores pylons on the RF-101 Voodoo.  Images courtesy of the Squadron book on the F-101 Voodoo and are posted for discussion purposes only. 

[ReccePhreak]

It's hard to see in those photos, but those ECM pods have the Ram Air Turbine propellors, to supply electricity to the pods, since the pylons used were not wired for electricity. At least, that's what I was told.
Larry

[KJ_Lesnick]

I have a couple of interesting ideas

The first is an idea for an F-88 designed more like a "Bansheefied" F-88 Voodoo

• More blending between the engine-bays and fuselage, and more blending between the engine-bay and the wings like the F2H
  
• Engines placed behind the wings and underneath the rear fuselage like the F-88 (I don't know if McDonnell would have thought to do this if the design was more like the F2H to be honest).
  
• Swept wings, a slat configuration (whether automatic or not) that would extend the outboard slats first before extending the inboards as to increase the propensity for a stall occurring at the roots rather than the tips under most conditions
  
• Different internal structure than the basic F2H which was heavier than the F-88 (22,000 lbs vs. 18,000 lbs -- The F2H was too heavy because it effectively was not allowed to deviate much from the original FH design, and as it scaled up, and as fuel was increased, and as strengthening was added the weight ballooned excessively)
  

This of course raises some interesting question

• If the F-88 was workable, would the USAF had cancelled it anyway?
  
• If the F-88 entered service, what effect would this have had on later aircraft designs.
  

..
The second idea revolves around the F-88 being designed as it was, but the F-101 being based around characteristics more resemblant of the blended qualities seen on the F2H (And the F-88 WHIF concept I whipped up).  This would, of course, depend on whether the USAF required the F-101 to be heavily based on the F-88.  Regardless, the idea would be based around avoiding a lot of problems the F-101 had which included the fact that it couldn't accomplish it's primary role -- it was supposed to be an air-superiority fighter that could escort bombers (effectively a supersonic jet-era P-51), with a secondary air-to-ground capability.

• The wings should have been larger (possibly swept back further, more like 40-45-degrees instead of 35-degrees).
  
• The wing should have featured some form of leading-edge device, preferably slats (whether automatically or manually extended) which would decrease takeoff and landing speed, and improve overall agility.  Preferably, such a slat configuration would work best with the outboard slats configured to extend first, then the inboards (similar in concept to the F-86) to reduce the odds of tip-stalls
  
• The aircraft should have used a cruciform tail rather than a T-tail as it would avoid pitch-up and deep-stall problems which are frequent on T-tailed planes
  
• There should have been heavy blending between the engine inlets, and the fuselage which tends to reduce interference-drag and possibly liberate some extra room for fuel.  
  
• Being that area-ruling was already understood, that would have been a good feature to have incorporated (which would have worked especially good with a great deal of blending between the engines and fuselage)
  
• The J57's are good engines and should of course, remain.
  

..

Opinions?

[dy031101]

According to Wikipedia:

In the early 1970s, a batch of 22 ex-RCAF CF-101Bs were returned to the USAF and converted to RF-101B reconnaissance aircraft with their radar and weapons bay replaced with a package of three KS-87B cameras and two AXQ-2 TV cameras. An in-flight refueling boom receptacle was fitted. These aircraft served with the 192nd Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron of the Nevada Air National Guard through 1975. They were expensive to operate and maintain and had a short service life.

Is that because of the camera package, or is the CF-101B airframe in and of itself logistically different from stock F-101B?

[apophenia]

... or is the CF-101B airframe in and of itself logistically different from stock F-101B?

dy': the CF-101Bs were ex-USAF F-101Bs. For the record, the CF-101B breakdown was:

11 x F-101B-85-MC -- 101008-101018
11 x F-101B-90-MC -- 101019-101021, 101023-101030
14 x F-101B-100-MC - 101053-101066
01 x F-101B-105-MC - 101067
   
And, just for completion, the mishmash of CF-101Fs was:

01 x F-101F-61-MC -- 101001
02 x F-101F-66-MC -- 101002-101003
01 x F-101F-71-MC -- 101004
03 x F-101F-81-MC -- 101005-101007
01 x F-101F-91-MC -- 101022

[Jschmus]

The Wiki article about the CF-101 talks about this.  In the early 70s, the USAF traded a batch of 66 F-101Bs with low flight hours for a similar number of CF-101bs already in RCAF hands.  The older/newer airframes were refitted in Canada with equipment from the outgoing CF-101s, while the older/older aircraft went back to the US.  It was from these that the RF-101Bs were created.  I imagine the older airframes were temperamental, which wouldn't lend them towards heavy use, especially in peacetime.

[dy031101]

Got it! 

[Captain Canada]

As a member of the CF-101 Voodoo page on FB, I'm privy to a load of great pics and stories from former fitters and crew. Here's a shot from Bristol in Winnipeg, I believe when they were doing said exchange.

[Captain Canada]

An interesting story, again from the FB page. Crazy stuff !

[Captain Canada]

The problem with old threads is the links and pics that are no longer available. Having said that, does anybody recall where to find the pics of the Voodoo with the pig centreline pod ?

[DarrenP2]

My RAF Century series senario involves the Voodoo being an FAW replacement for the Javelin, DSG/DG/Alu allocated to 151 Squadron out of Leuchars.

For the record, the others are:

F-100 - Hunter replacement, RAFG (112 Squadron)
F-102 - interim long range day interceptor pending delivery of F-106 (74 Sqn)
F-104 - Short range interceptor, RAFG based (92 Squadron)
F-105 - Canberra tacc Nuke bomber replacement, RAFG and RAF Middle East (16 Sqn)
F-106 - day interceptor, (23 Squadron)

The alternative history is a rapid need to re-arm post-Cuba after the Sandys cuts cancelled ALL manned aircraft.

F110a would have been a better option for the lot

[Captain Canada]

I've found one pic with a big nuke but I thought there was one with a pod somat like the B-58 Hustler ?

[Captain Canada]

Anyone ? I know it's here somewhere, and defo not the one I've found so far. One of these days I'll start getting organized. Not. lol

[Zero-Sen]