F-101 (and XF-88) Voodoo

[NARSES2]

Except for the noise...

Regards,

Greg

Noise?  Whats a little noise amongst friends?  Remember, the USAF was intending to fly around in nuclear powered bombers so if they didn't care about nuclear radiation, what makes you think they'll be worried by a little noise?   

Yes, but didn't the XF-84 Thunderscreech make everyone physicaly sick for a couple of square miles around when it started up ?

[rickshaw]

Except for the noise...

Regards,

Greg

Noise?  Whats a little noise amongst friends?  Remember, the USAF was intending to fly around in nuclear powered bombers so if they didn't care about nuclear radiation, what makes you think they'll be worried by a little noise?   

Yes, but didn't the XF-84 Thunderscreech make everyone physicaly sick for a couple of square miles around when it started up ?

Not quite that far, I suspect but yes, the XF-84 was a bit difficult to hang around.  Mmm, perhaps they could have employed deaf people?  It might have solved the problem.  However, they were two very different sorts of blades in use (three if you count my idea of using scimitar blades).   I wonder though, how the Russians then got away with using the turboprops on the Tu-95/142?  Don't their tips also break the sound barrier?

[kitnut617]

 I wonder though, how the Russians then got away with using the turboprops on the Tu-95/142?  Don't their tips also break the sound barrier?

I've read somewhere that RAF pilots would get sick when they intercepted and got in close to escort them away.  How true that is I wouldn't know.

[PR19_Kit]

I've stood within yards of a Tu-95 running up and getting ready for take-off when it visited RIAT Fairford a few years ago, and it sounded like a turbo-charged Shackleton more than anything else. The sound levels weren't anywhere near the threshold of pain or sick making, unlike being alongside a 4-ship of Tornado GR4s on the threshold at Lossiemouth. That was positively PAINfull, and I was wearing ear defenders as well!

[jcf]

From what I've read it wasn't the noise level per se with the XF-84H, rather it was the frequency that caused the nausea.
Which is also probably what the Tu-95 intercepting pilots may have experienced if approaching from exactly the right angle.

I experienced something similar first hand working on helicopters. We had a Bell 214 Heavy Lift logging bird in for electrical
maintenance and at one point the pilot/owner Tommy (Nam vet and his Rottweiler accompanied him in the helo everywhere)
was on the apron in front of our hangar doing some tests that required him to take the rotor up to around 78% speed in flat
pitch. The effect was instantaneous and memorable, as he approached the proper speed everything in the hangar started to
resonate in time with the rotors.

Parts bin danced off the shelves, I honestly thought the office windows were going to flex themselves out of their frames - they
were really weird as they were vibrating from the centre out, it looked like the ripples in a pond after you've dropped a rock in
the water. The physical effect was extremely disturbing as it felt like your guts were literally  turning to water. My boss was
in communication with Tommy via headset and quickly told him he need to shut down or just take-off, he did the latter to
everyone's instant relief.

Thinking about it afterward, we came to the conclusion that it was probably a result of the layout of the hangars in that
area of the field combined with the wide Cobra-type blades used on the 214B, because neither my boss or Tommy had
ever experienced the problem previously and both had worked around the 214B for years. We were in one of a row of
large hangars and directly across from us was a row of T-hangars, so the conclusion was that with the position of helicopter
in relation to the two rows of hangars the sound waves from the rotors were bouncing back and forth between the structures
which amplified the effect. Needless to say, we always moved Tommy's bird to a more open area for future tests. Interestingly
we ran S-61s up in exactly the same location with no ill effects.

Jon

[simmie]

From my understanding of these things, the American supersonic propeller program involved pushing the props to greater and greater rotational speeds.  The prop angles were pushed finer and finer, as was the standard approach at that time.

The Soviet approach was to go in the opposite direction by using slow turning, coarse set blades with 2 * 4 blades contra-rotating.

I am assuming that the noise thing was to do with the rotational speed.  The Bear is well known for its low pitched growl that can be heard for a number of miles, the XF-88 and XF-84H was a higher pitch.

I think this is right, but I might be wrong in how I have worked this out and I stand willing to corrected.

[NARSES2]

Must admit I always thought the Thunderscreech problem was down to frequency rather then noise, but that's purely a "gut" feeling, no joke intended

[KJ_Lesnick]

The problems were related to frequency... that's what caused the acute nausea in people

[James]

BUMP!!! Can anyone tell me whether the F-101 was considered for adopting the Sparrow? To my knowledge it wasn't but I was thinking about doing an RAF Voodoo armed with 3x sparrows under the fuselage.

[Chris707]

The USAF didn't get on the Sparrow bandwagon until the F-4C, after the Voodoo line was shut down, and by that time the -101 didn't really make up a large enough part of the force to merit a refit - they were busy enough bringing the F-106 up to speed. A whif AIM-7 armed example would of course be fine!

Chris
---------------------------------------
End of the line for an F-101

[pyro-manic]

Sounds reasonable to me. Maybe a couple of wing pylons as well, or fuselage hardpoints as on the Phantom.

[sotoolslinger]

Dang I would really love to do that Draken/Voodoo bash But I have done the F-5 with Draken wings and that fit together perfect. The 1/48 scale 101 is better than a foot long so you would definitely have to scaleorama a 1/72 Voodoo with a 1/48 Draken.
Dang I wish I could get a hold of a 1/32 Draken
Yeah right. The little build would still cost 100 bucks

[dy031101]

A whif AIM-7 armed example would of course be fine!

How "exportable" is the FCS for the Sparrow missile onboard the F3H-2M/MF-3B in the 1960s compared to the system used by the F-4?

Along a similar line as KJ_Lesnick's Voodoo-Demon-Phantom stir fry, I'm thinking of a Phantom-wannabe reinvented from the Voodoo (maybe a non-US development)...... and I want to explore a possible single-seat option......

[Jschmus]

I'm not having a lot of luck finding info on the fire control system used in conjunction with the early Sparrow, but Sparrow-armed versions of the Demon and Cutlass were both single-seat aircraft, so the workload must have been manageable for a solo pilot.

[kitnut617]

I'm not having a lot of luck finding info on the fire control system used in conjunction with the early Sparrow, but Sparrow-armed versions of the Demon and Cutlass were both single-seat aircraft, so the workload must have been manageable for a solo pilot.

You might find something about it in the Avro Arrow books.  It was ear marked for the early versions of the Sparrow