Differently 141

[Tophe]

And at http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/ , our dear Overscan mentioned a Blackburn P.141

And Lark mentioned a Bristol 141 of 1934 (twin-engine mentioned but not illustrated in the book "The Turret Fighters")

[Tophe]

The Lockheed L-141 project became the XP-80A Shooting Star, yes, but before the order came, Clarence Kelly Tophson required it to be a twin-plane (L-141Z) and the 141 code meant it shoud be assymmetric (L-141ZA), with something as a single fin and tiny port wing...

[Tophe]

In the VERY nice book "From Sea to Air – the Heritage of Sam Saunders" by A.E.Tagg, there is alas a gap between projects P.139 and P.142. Very obviously a P.141 has been designed between them, but it is not explained nor illustrated. Let what-if "Historians" like me fill this gap:
The P.139 was a double-deck airliner for 100 passengers and this was not enough. Thus the Saunders-Roe P.140 quadruple deck for 215 passengers. Then the Saunders-Roe P.141 with less drag and taking into account the asymmetrical huge torque of 8 engines rotating in the same direction...    

[Tophe]

At http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/inde...php?topic=427.0 Lark found this:
"Vega V-141 : 1942 Proposal for a twin-engined torpedo scout bomber for the US.Navy."
Well, I do not know the Vega US Company but I know the very famous Lockheed Vega of Amelia Earheart, so... my what-if conclusion is that the Vega V-141 proposal of 1942 was a twin-engined twin-fuselage (and asymmetric, as coded 141) late version of the Lockheed Vega:

Wrong? No matter, this is funny...
(thanks to http://www.ne.jp/asahi/airplane/museum/cl-...pln2/TW007.html )

[Tophe]

Well, I do not know the Vega US Company but

I found Vega Airplane Div. of Lockheed Aircraft Co. (with actual airplanes 1941) at http://aerofiles.com/_uv.html#_V ...

[elmayerle]

Well, I do not know the Vega US Company but

I found Vega Airplane Div. of Lockheed Aircraft Co. (with actual airplanes 1941) at http://aerofiles.com/_uv.html#_V ...

Yep, that's why the Lockheed Ventura has the US Navy basic designation PV and the Neptune is the P2V.  Lockheed also had the "O" company designator for a while (Navy P-80's for transition experience were labelled "FO") but eventually the US Navy standardized on the "V".

[Tophe]

Thanks Evan. You are right: the Lockheed Vega was maybe too old for 1942. And a Neptune is too recent. So, a torpedo version of the Vega Ventura is more probable. Thus the Vega (or Evag) V-141B below (twin-asymmetric Ventura), ordered as PV-11 Twin-AsVentura:

Asymmetry is light: only the tails - with 2 fuselages, there is enough lateral area, so no need of 3 fins, nor even 2...
(thanks to http://www.old.modelarstwo.org.pl/lotnicze...ventura/07.html )

[Tophe]

What would you do if it was a heli? Join the tips of the rotors?!

Do you know the Mil Mi-32 dear? Almost real... I am not more crazy than some professional engineers ... or not much more ...

with data at http://avia.russian.ee/helicopters_eng/mi-32-r.html    

[Tophe]

from myself at http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/inde...php?topic=427.0
I have received the book "From Spitfire to Eurofighter"  by Roy Boot, Airlife Publishing, and it is a VERY nice book, even enriching Tony Buttler's books on the Blackburn projects subject: I am a happy purchaser. Of course, the best point for me was the Blackburn P.141 of 1965, that had to be slightly turned asymmetric, of course, because of its code 141... Thanks Overscan to have directed me to this book!

[Tophe]

From http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/inde...php?topic=427.0 : the Martin 141 is described as a flying-boat project after the China-Clipper and before the Mariner, for the US Navy, cancelled.
So... in my dreams, the Martin 130 China-Clipper was turned into the Martin 141 for a different user, and with a second hull to increase room for tanks thus range, with less than a double drag as one fin was enough and lateral floats were discarded, and less than a double power, decreasing weight and drag, to increase fuel and range once more. The result, "surprisingly", is asymmetric...

(thanks to http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/manatee/...inaclipper.html )

[nev]

What a great thread  

President Tophe, based upon your 1-4-1 principle, how would a suitably modifed, er I mean, corrected,  F-101 look?

[Tophe]

Well, let me try: turning a F-101 Voodoo into asymmetric twin-body F-141 AsTwoodoo was not easy, hiding the straight central wing (too uneasy for my level with PhotoPaint)...
Using http://www.flightheritage.com/images/F101/f101.jpg I have tried a special layout, rather rare: twin-tail single-(port-)nose...

[B777LR]

What would you do if it was a heli? Join the tips of the rotors?!

Do you know the Mil Mi-32 dear? Almost real... I am not more crazy than some professional engineers ... or not much more ...

with data at http://avia.russian.ee/helicopters_eng/mi-32-r.html  

     

Sorry dear, i didnt know about it, is it russian?
Sure is ugly.

Also, how is weather in france today? Seemed pretty bad when i flew over today.


And why does this happen to this window?

[Tophe]

Surprising window picture, but you stupid what-ifer  must stop to dream : such a phenomenon simply DOES NOT EXIST outside your crazy mind!  

Back to the 141 collection... I have checked the book "Aeroplani Caproni" by Rosario Abate, Pub. Museo Caproni: the Ca.140 & Ca.142 are mentioned but not the Ca.141... As the Ca.140 is not illustrated, I imagine the Caproni Ca.141Z may have been a Ca.135 bifusoliera with a touch of asymmetry...

[Tophe]

Fokker Ontwerp-141 (Design 141): I have found the Ont.135 Super G.1 of 1936 and Ont.147 of 1937, so the Ont.141 may be another improved G.1 like this – in line engines, clear rear post: