Mustang: F-51, A-36, F-82, Cavalier, and Piper PA-48 Enforcer

[Tophe]

There is a full double-page about Griffon Mustangs in my E-book "Virtual Mustangs", free at http://cmeunier.chez-alice.fr/Free_EoFG_MV.htm – and there is a full book devoted to the subject: "Griffon-powered Mustangs" by A. Grantham Pub. Specialty Press...

[Damian2]

Thanx for all the info guys!

You may be seeing a Griphon 'Stang as part of my COIN 'Stangs around the globe in the near future (once my Dead Parrot GB build is done)...


Mustangs ya gotta love 'em

[P1127]

TSRJoe made a model of the Rolls Royce mid-engined Griffon Mustang - there must be a photo of it kicking about?

[kitnut617]

The big problem was as Jon points out, the weight.  The Reno Racer guys are finding this out and you'll notice that the engines have had to be placed almost at the pilot's feet.  This cuts into where the forward fuel tank is located plus a bunch of other engine accessories.  Another problem is the added weight of the contra-prop too.

During the war, RR tried to fit the Griffon into the Mustang and found the same problem.  Their solution was to make a mid engined fighter and they proposed one to the Air Ministry.  It looked like the attached link:

http://groups.msn.com/TheWhatifandoddballm...to&PhotoID=2099

The Air Ministry didn't give RR a contract for the fighter (Private Venture) but did suggest it be used for a Flying Test Bed.  There are some pictures in the link of both which I made with the kind help of David Birch (fellow Air-Britain member and official RR Historian)  There is a 1/10 scale wind tunnel model still in existence which RAE tested and found that the tail surfaces were 60% undersize in area so it was suggested that RR use a Tempest tail unit.  RR was issued one tail unit for this purpose but the project was cancelled before they could attach it to the all metal mock-up.  This was about 80% complete at the time of cancellation and represented what the final flying version would have looked like.

You can buy a book on this call Rolls Royce and the Mustang by David Birch.

Cheers,  Robert

Check this link to a thread I posted earlier:

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index...showtopic=11154

[Ollie]

Forward fuel tank in a Mustang?  Where?

P-51s normally have wing tanks and the aft fuselage tank...  There's a big oil tank behind the instrument panel, just on the other side of the firewall though.

[kitnut617]

Oops, got my tanks wrong, sorry.   cheers mate

Anyway you look at it though the engine takes up the room.  On the Reno Racers it's not a problem because they are only in the air for a short time.  For a long range mission it would have been a big problem

Edit:  Link to fuel system as Ollie pointed out:

http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Images/P...51/P-51F1FS.gif

The model I have of a Griffon engined P-51, a Reno Racer, seems to have a much deeper but very stubby forward fuselage.  I would suggest then that the engine has been raised so that the two stage supercharger is mounted over the wheel bays instead of just forward of the bays as in a Merlin equipped version.  What do you think, Ollie?

[Damian2]

Ok so at the end of the day it wouldn't really be feasable to put a Griffon in, in reality that is good thing I don't subscribe to that stuff...

I'll just modify one Mustang with it mounted in front with tip tanks for the hell of it anyhow...  

[Ollie]

Yeap, it looks like that.

Check "Precious Metal" : http://www.warbirdregistry.org/p51registry...51-4473518.html

[kitnut617]

My model is of Precious Metal.  I bought it because after reading about RR's attempts to install the Griffon on the front, I wanted to find out why they couldn't.

Seeing these photos explains it all the more.

Robert

[kitnut617]

THats interesting info guys, I'll keep it in mines when I get arount to doing my Griffon 'Stangs (Always thought a P-51D would look better w/a 5 bladed prop!)


Shas B)

There's a photo of a five bladed Mustang in P-51 in Action,  on page 50 of the P-51G.  It looks the same as a Spit five blade prop except because it's on a Merlin it spins in the other direction, the engine being an experimental RR 14 SM.

Robert

[Ollie]

That RR 14SM, is it more akin to a Merlin or a Griffon?

The best looking one is the -F with its 3-bladed propeller.    

[kitnut617]

I believe it's related to the racing engine that was in the S6B, which was boosted to put out over 2000 hp even before the war.  I think it was Bootham who used it in the S6B to take the absolute speed record for a time.  

Robert

[Ollie]

Then it's like a Griffon.  If I recall correctly, the Rolls-Royce R engine (no?) became the Griffon...

   

[kitnut617]

From what I've read Ollie, it led to both the Merlin and the Griffon, but I think it was more like the Merlin though as this was the first engine to go into production from it.

[elmayerle]

I believe the Merlin built on experience RR gained both with the R engine and with the Kestrel.  The Griffon, in turn, built on their Merlin experience while returning to the full displacement of the R.