Mustang: F-51, A-36, F-82, Cavalier, and Piper PA-48 Enforcer

[GTX]

Speaking of Naval Mustangs, here is a drawing showing the proposed NA-133, Navalised P-51H:



Regards,

Greg

[GTX]

And then there are these Radial engined Mustang Trainer proposals which eventually led to the T-28:

Variant A:





Variants B & C:



Regards,

Greg

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Zack,
You are better off using a block of wood instead of the only conversion that I am aware of for the PA-48 Enforcer.  It is a real piece of doo doo, almost like the multi-media version of a fruitcake.  I can say this without reservation as I have been on the receiving end of the Ready Room conversion kit and thankfully it was given to me so I gave it to Barry.  That kit has crossed the Canadian/American border at least three times that I know of and hopefully it will stay in Barry's basement. 

There was hope that Legato was going to release a complete 1/48th scale multi-media kit of the PA-48 Enforcer.  That announcement was made over a year ago.  There was an image posted of what the proposed kit box art would look like but that is it.  No release date was provided for the kit and I am starting to think that it will never be a reality.  Also keep in mind that Legato kits are not cheap so if they do produce the kit it will probably be very expensive.  See attached image of the kit box art that was displayed on the Legato web page. 

[philp]

Zac,
Nice article on doing this in 72nd scale.  Should be able to use the info for 48th.
http://hsfeatures.com/features04/enforcerpd_1.htm

and depending on how good your German is (or German to English translator), here is a write up on converting the exact same kit you have.
http://www.modellversium.de/galerie/8-flugzeuge-militaer-modern/3388-piper-pa-48-enforcer.html

[Thorvic]

http://www.heritageaviationmodelsltd.com/148_conversions.htm

Heritage do one

[Weaver]

Bear in mind that the original (Dart-engined) Cavalier Turbo-Mustang and the (T-55 engined) Piper Enforcer had radically different nose shapes.

Spooky that this should be posted today: I've been considering a Turbo-Spitfire COIN aircraft for my Cheshire Militia/Balkanized World scenario. Definately tending more towards the uglier Dart nose shape in order to annoy as many Spitophiles as possible.....

[famvburg]

     It's more than just the nose, nearly the entire airframe's different. Kinda like a P-51H or even F-82 fuselages. Yes, they 'look' like Mustangs, but they aren't P-51Ds by any means.

Bear in mind that the original (Dart-engined) Cavalier Turbo-Mustang and the (T-55 engined) Piper Enforcer had radically different nose shapes.

Spooky that this should be posted today: I've been considering a Turbo-Spitfire COIN aircraft for my Cheshire Militia/Balkanized World scenario. Definately tending more towards the uglier Dart nose shape in order to annoy as many Spitophiles as possible.....

[Jeffry Fontaine]

http://www.heritageaviationmodelsltd.com/148_conversions.htmHeritage do one

That Heritage conversion is not cheap but the only Cavalier Turbo-Mustang conversion available in 1/48th scale unless you are going to start carving on a block of wood.  I have a pair of those conversions.  One of them has a very glaring blemish on the engine cowling, the other is in perfect condition.  Of course my original intentions were to not use it on a Mustang, I was thinking about tripling the value of a Monogram Dakota by making a Turbo-Dakota with a pair of RR Darts. 

Same topic but different version.  The one off forward cockpit version of the Mustang that was built in the UK during the war.  Was there any intention of arming this version with a cannon firing through the propeller hub?  In similar arrangement to the P-39 and P-63?

[kitnut617]

Same topic but different version.  The one off forward cockpit version of the Mustang that was built in the UK during the war.  Was there any intention of arming this version with a cannon firing through the propeller hub?  In similar arrangement to the P-39 and P-63?

It was to have three cannons, one each in the wings and one throught the spinner.  When I built mine I couldn't understand why they would only have one cannon so I wrote to David Birch (Official Rolls Royce Historian and fellow Air-Britain member) who has written a book about Rolls Royce Mustangs and he told me all about them.  I bought his book too and is highly recommended.  David told me that had the aircraft flown it would have had a Tempest tail as wind tunnel testing on a 1/10 scale model had revealed that the tail was undersized by about 60%.

Here's some pics of the two I've built.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

It was to have three cannons, one each in the wings and one throught the spinner.  When I built mine I couldn't understand why they would only have one cannon so I wrote to David Birch (Official Rolls Royce Historian and fellow Air-Britain member) who has written a book about Rolls Royce Mustangs and he told me all about them.  I bought his book too and is highly recommended.  David told me that had the aircraft flown it would have had a Tempest tail as wind tunnel testing on a 1/10 scale model had revealed that the tail was undersized by about 60%.

Robert,

Thanks for the feedback on that question.  Puts another piece of the puzzle in place.  Personally the whole design is just odd enough to interest me and the thing about the tail is definitely a new bit of information.  Your model with the tail sure takes on a different appearance, not one that I find pleasing to the eye but who am I to question the reasons for the decisions that would have been made if the design had gone into production.  Odd that they did not take the approach done with the P-51D and later models by introducing a fin fillet ahead of the vertical surfaces to inscrease available surface area.  The three cannon arrangment looks a bit unusual but it was designed for ground attack so three cannons are better than two but no where near as attractive as a four or five cannon arrangment.  Personally, I would have imagined a larger caliber cannon firing through the propeller and a battery of four 20mm cannons, two in each wing and the usual fuel tanks, rockets, or bombs carried under the wings. 

[kitnut617]

Robert,

Thanks for the feedback on that question.  Puts another piece of the puzzle in place.  Personally the whole design is just odd enough to interest me and the thing about the tail is definitely a new bit of information.  Your model with the tail sure takes on a different appearance, not one that I find pleasing to the eye but who am I to question the reasons for the decisions that would have been made if the design had gone into production.  Odd that they did not take the approach done with the P-51D and later models by introducing a fin fillet ahead of the vertical surfaces to inscrease available surface area.  The three cannon arrangment looks a bit unusual but it was designed for ground attack so three cannons are better than two but no where near as attractive as a four or five cannon arrangment.  Personally, I would have imagined a larger caliber cannon firing through the propeller and a battery of four 20mm cannons, two in each wing and the usual fuel tanks, rockets, or bombs carried under the wings. 

I had bought an Unicraft conversion of this aircraft and while building it I found that the nose was a bit short, I figured that a 20mm cannon was about 6 feet long (or a bit more) and if I placed the end of the barrel as the in the photos here, the breach would have nestled right in the pilot' crotch.  I then tried to find some information about it and just happened to notice on a list of Specialist contacts that Air-Britain puts out with each years membership, that David Birch was the Rolls Royce Mustang Specialist.  I wrote to him for some info and his suggestion was to buy his book  (which you can get through the Rolls Royce Heritage Trust BTW).  I did that and found a lot of interesting things about how RR converted the Mustang to Merlin power.  As this had a successful conclusion they naturally progressed to the Griffon engine.  Here they found that it wasn't possible to install this engine as they had done on the Spitfire as it really upset the cg and the idea came up for a mid engined aircraft where it could have any engine of any size installed without upsetting the cg.  The green/brown one in my photos is how RR proposed it to the Air Ministry as a Private Venture Fighter and was Griffon powered, when RR was converting the Mustang to Merlin power they were issued with five surplus Mustang Mk.I's for conversion, and when the AM accepted RR' mid-engine proposal they were issued parts from a further three.  These had the green/brown camo which is why I painted mine as I did.

After reading the book, I had even more questions about the PV Fighter than before so once again I wrote to David and then he was a lot more informative.  I found out that the 1/10 model still exists and that David knew where it was.  I asked him if he could get some dimensions from it so I could compare with the 1/72 conversion I had.  Turns out I was right about the nose being to short in the kit, I had to add about 8mm just in front of the cockpit then everything fell into place.  At that time David told me about the tail modifications which would have been done had the aircraft ever flown.  RR were issued a complete Tempest tail after the wind tunnel test came through.  I got the impression that this was just to expedite the prototype quicker and that a full blown production model would have had a re-designed tail.  When I asked where the tail would have been connected he told me that the rudder hinge line would have been in the same place which dictated where the join went, it came right in the center of the original tailwheel bay so I determined that the Tempest tailwheel would have been used.

In the end the whole project got down-graded to a single Flying Test Bed and would have had the Tempest tail.  But then it all got cancelled when the war ended.  The Tempest tailed model is how David described it to me and I went a bit further and made mine as if powered by the RR Crecy engine with an exhaust turbine, which is why the exhaust stubs are where they are.

Out of interest, when RR were converting the Mustang to a Merlin engine, they found that it was lacking in yaw stability and when discussing it with the North American representative, found that NA knew about it too.  RR fitted a NA dorsal fillet to one of their MK.I conversions and found it didn't really do the job (there's a photo of this in the book) so they determined how much more area the fin needed and added 3 inches to the whole leading edge of the fin.  This apparently cured the yaw problem and eventually all five of the Mustang Mk.X's were fitted with the fin extension.  When I made my High Planes kit of the Mk.X I added this three inches to it. Here's a photo of it:

[GTX]

Now what if the Mustang wasn't powered by the Merlin or Allison but rather by a radial engine instead - we might have seen these:







Regards,

Greg

[Mossie]

Very nice, if not pretty!  The bubbletop looks very like Baz's Superbolts.

[Aircav]

Anyone seen or heard of this project before?
http://www.swissmustangs.ch/32128.html

[pyro-manic]

Heh, that's.... unusual? I love that colour scheme, though!