OV-10 Bronco

[Joberg]

UAV are more used for targeted strikes. I think he means use them as a cheaper alternative to A-10s for close air support insurgents. Also if the Army was allowed to have fixed wing planes an updated Bronco would probably be a better support platform than an Apache. Now I was only a grunt when I was in but it seemed as though they only operate Apaches from large bases to begin with so you lose a lot of the need for vtol vs stol operations. The Broncos fly faster and carry more than a helo (even a few troops or supplies can sit in the back!). There's no need for the birds to hover on the attack, that's dangerous, they make strafing runs to be harder to hit(witnessed in the training I was involved in, also saw kiowas strafing in theater) so a fixed wing plane would be better for that too. Broncos or some similar airplane would be a good addition to the army.

[rickshaw]

Yes, they could do all that - if as I mentioned, they created a new production line producing new, modernised airframes which would then be twice as expensive as the nearest competitor and several years behind the other potential aircraft because they would need considerable development time.  So the Pentagon bought "off-the-shelf" and decided on the Super-Tacano.

Most of the role of the aircrat is observation rather than strike.  UAVs are cheaper to operate and don't expose expensive and valuable humans to potential enemy fire.  The strike side of things can be handled better by "bomb trucks", which carry more and can utilise smart weapons to hit targets from much further away, more accurately when coupled with UAVs.   These can be aircraft or helicopters.  Helicopters don't need to hover to deliver their weapons.  Indeed to do so would be foolish.

The world has changed, war has changed since the days of the Bronco.   Time we moved on IMHO, isn't it and recognised that technology has made things different?

[Green Dragon]

Raytheon is ticked off their T-6 lost and was apparently given no reason by the USAF so they're taking the case to court last I heard.

Paul Harrison

[PR19_Kit]

Raytheon is ticked off their T-6 lost and was apparently given no reason by the USAF so they're taking the case to court last I heard.

They must have taken lessons from Boeing then....... 

[Green Dragon]

LOL Reckon you're right there Kit!

Paul Harrison

[Joberg]

It had slipped my mind that the Turcanos still were in active production and use. That is a pretty good reason to pick it over a plane that doesn't have an open line. I thought I had read that Boeing planned to build and export them even if they didn't win the contract. Did anyone else read the same or am I losing my mind?

[DarrenP]

UAV's are creating loads of problems in Afghan so i've heard there have been a multitude of near misses with manned aircraft by UAV's and the man in the cockpit has prevented major incidents

[jnas_]

Hello, new poster here. Topic has been really interesting reading, especially the Brian H's proposal for maritime variant.

I think the Bronco would make a useful platform for light coastal patrol and even ASW & ASuW in case of hostilities for the smaller countries. Combat proven, decent range with additional fuel stored in cargo bay or wing tanks and lot of options for payload configuration. Sure, the King Air type aircraft are less costly, have more range and speed and have an advantage of being civilian aircraft with lot of people certified for flight and maintenance duties anywhere in the world already. But I don't think their low & slow flying characteristics, versatility or weapons integration capabilities would match the venerable OV-10, as it's been designed for combat and FAC from the beginning.

I did some whiffing recently with Academy OV-10D: OV-10D(N) maritime variant for coast guard or sort of marine gendarme use. Equipped with an updated MX-15i type FLIR/CCD/LRF-turret, Nightsun searchlight slaved to FLIR turret, Seaspray radar under the cockpit for 360 degree FOV and suitable payload options. Enclosed in the cargo bay would be an additional fuel tank of about 150-200 gallons together with electronics for sonar receiver/processor and radar.

Usable pylons would be reduced to four due to radar mounting and all the additional electronic gear and fuel would reduce the usable payload under 2000lbs, but the quality has an advantage over quantity in this case. Store options include LW SKAD packages for survivor supply on either land or sea (max 4), 100-gallon fuel tanks (2), SUU-25F/A dispensers deploying either illumination flares or sonobuoys (2 pods á max 8 submunitions), ASW torpedoes (max 2) and Sea Skua missiles (max 4). For the fixed armament one fast-firing .50cal M3P machinegun could be mounted inside each sponson with 250rpg. Guns would be useful for warning shots and anti-piracy or anti-smuggling scenarios but please keep in mind, this is no CAS plane... it would lack the 400lb cockpit armor to save weight. However, the RWR/MWR and chaff/flare dispensers would be retained for possible wartime use.

Of course the laser designator could be optional for FLIR turret, but I don't think the mounting of rather short ranged Hellfires or LGB's would do any good for the intended role... aircraft wouldn't be doing CAS for ground troops and using those weapons against the intended maritime targets (coastal combatants: light corvettes, gunboats, fast attack craft, landing craft etc) would bring the aircraft dangerously close to their AA defences (usually 1-3" guns or IR-missiles). The Sea Skuas on the otherhand have range of 16 miles, so they can be launched well beyond the range of the usual light vessel AA; and, as the guidance radar would have a 360 degree view i/o reduced FOV of the forward facing ones, aircraft could turn tail after the launch without the need to fly constantly towards the target.

In ASW role the OV-10 would deploy the passive sonobuoy patterns from dispensers or use the pre-deployed hydrophones or sonar data received from the surface vessel. Active sonobuoys would be used for weapon deployment. Not sure how the acoustic environment would fit the accurate passive sonobuoy data processing though, as I've read the Bronco can be pretty loud... but with a 4- or 5-blade propellers the ride would be quieter. Not mounting a MAD-boom would reduce the cost and complexity but not sure if this is wise...  

In patrol mode, Bronco would use it's radar to locate shipping, AIS for identification and high-quality FLIR/CCD for visual identification of non-AIS objects. In case of SAR participation, it would act as a spotter for rescue helicopters in order to allow them to concentrate on hoisting and actual rescue. Nightsun would be useful for on-scene illumination as the quick-turning Bronco would fly ½-mile radius circles around the spot with FLIR/nightsun combination tracking the target. Nightsun could also be used for spotting and signalling the survivors who most likely won't have radios...

A really nice and versatile aircraft indeed. I wonder if Boeing would be interested in this concept in regards to OV-10X  

[NARSES2]

Wellcome JNS, sounds an interesting idea

[jnas_]

Thanks for welcome 

If anyone has ideas regarding the suitable 4 or 5 blade propellers for Academy's OV-10D in 1/72, I'd be glad to hear. Could Revell's Do228 be one option? Both aircraft seem to be using Garrett TPE331 in RL, at least the OV-10A does.

[PR19_Kit]

This is Whiffworld, you can use whatever prop fits the model here........ 

[rickshaw]

Thanks for welcome 

If anyone has ideas regarding the suitable 4 or 5 blade propellers for Academy's OV-10D in 1/72, I'd be glad to hear. Could Revell's Do228 be one option? Both aircraft seem to be using Garrett TPE331 in RL, at least the OV-10A does.

The Philippino Air Force adopted their OV-10s to use four bladed props because the three bladed ones were no longer in production and they found sourcing parts for them difficult.   The Indonesians did similar IIRC.

[jsport]

who will contemplate the risky leap of 4-5 blade engine, forward swept wing, stealth Ov-10Xx whif..
A four engine was once on this forum . 

[Dizzyfugu]

To add a twist: OKB Suchoi also worked on a COIN project which VERY MUCH looked like a Bronco - AFAIK, this eventually evolved into the (bigger) S-80 transporter:

[famvburg]

    For a real Soviet OV-10 look-alike, look here, the Aeroprogress T-710 Anakonda. http://postimage.org/image/hkyorwnzt/ . IIRC this is much larger than an OV-10 as the forward fuselage is from a Frogfoot. OTOH, the T-504 proposal was in line with the OV-10. http://www.airwar.ru/image/i/attack/t504-i.jpg. There area lot more pics at Secret Projects in a thread called Soviet COIN aircraft.