Real life kitbashing

[AeroplaneDriver]

Interesting "new" fighter here.  Are the bad guys poaching ideas from whatifmodellers.com  


http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=242627

[anthonyp]

I found a pic of that over at globalsecurity.org sometime last year.  Posted it here, but it seems to have gotten lost somewhere in the shuffle.  Here's a link to the plane's article on globalsecurity.org, the Saeqeh-80

There's another Iranian F-5 rebuild, where the intakes are about the size of an F-4's, and the plane is about 10-15% larger.  Here's the link to it on globalsecurity, the Azarakhsh.

[Shasper]

Like this Ant? Looky here!

Here's one of the F-5 knockoff: Clicky

Shas B)

[Big Chris]

I cant help feeling someone over there is yanking our chains. :zzz:  :zzz:  

[anthonyp]

Like this Ant? Looky here!

That's the plane that they developed in country, the Shafaq.  It's thought that the plane is actually built off of an old MiG design for a trainer/light attack aircraft, as they helped at the beginning, but backed out.

More can be found at globalsecurity.org's Shafaq page.

(Yes, I know globalsecurity.org is full of conjecture and what not sometimes, but I don't have access to Janes ATWA here at home.)

 

[Madoc]

Folks,

The thing which worries me the most about all this is that too many of the Iranians might come to believe their own PR.  I mean, over the past year they've trotted out some "super" cruise missile, a "super invisible special speadboat" and now some locally built fighter plane which is also "super special."  This latest little F-5 kitbash is a nice effort for a domestic aircraft industry.  The thing is probably just barely worth the AMRAAM it'd take to splash it.  A more appropriate response to it would be a burst of 20mm cannon fire.  Other than that I think it delusional to expect such a limited machine to fare at all well against even currently operational western aircraft.  Let alone something as advanced as the F-22 or Typhon.

But if the mad mullahs of Tehran think their local efforts give them any sort of impunity then that will only cost all of us too much in convincing them otherwise.

Madoc

[Gervasius]

Madoc has a point there, that thing is not worth a 'winder shot, AMRAAM would be overkill and a war crime over a helpless victim.

Add a second tail, square off intakes, remove gun from the nose for a half-decent radar, and there you have it - a nice '60s vintage light fighter.

Anyway, arm this baby with a nice HOBS AAM, like R-73 and you have a relatively potent threat. It appears that Iran is the only middle-east country (except Israel) with some hints of aerospace industry.

And there is a Iranian 900 kg LGB test scheduled for next couple of days.

Marko

[AeroplaneDriver]

I did a bit more reading on this thing on Janes, PPRUNE, GlobalSecurity, etc and it seems it is NOT just an F-5 with twin tails, but a larger aircraft based on the design of the F-5.  

While I can see the danger of everyday Iranians buying into the notion that their contry is developing a wrold-class military capable of taking on all comers, I also think there is a danger in dismissing this aircraft out of hand as a kitbashed F-5 barely worth the AMRAAM that will take it down.  After all, the F-20 was also a "kitbashed F-5" and it could give the F-16 quite a run for its money.

[Shasper]

If it's engines are the J85 or similar, lacking FBW, guns and haveing only a modest AAM load (Not to mention range issues), we're talking about a 60's design thats been upgraded, but still peforms like a 60's design. Mind you, the F-5s out at Fallon can still whip Rhino/Bug/'Cat a**, who's to sat that a Tiffy or Craptor wont have their hands full if the rag drivin' this thing has half a brain. I would'nt be surprised if this F-5 der. actualy handles more sluggish that the nimble Tiger.


Shas B)

[Madoc]

Okay, lemme clarify my remarks a bit.

Given the prediliction of our armed forces to expend ordnance - matter how costly each individual round might be - at almost inordinate rates if they think doing so will keep them alive in combat, then I'd not be at all surprised to see our guys standing off a BVR and splashing every one of these homegrown Iranian fighters.

Yeah, they'd then paint the kill markings on their birds and probably get into no few bar fights afterwards having to uphold the principle of the kills being legit and challenging.

Yes, in the hands of extremely experienced combat pilots flying against western aircraft that they are intimately familiar with and engaging them in tightly scripted and intentionally unfavorable conditions, small point defense interceptors like the F-5, can gain an advantage over the larger, fully laden, air superiority fighters.  Especially when they are required to keep their long range radars off but still lug around all those big and heavy long range missiles.

In the real world, especially if you're not hindered by any Johnsonian/ MacNamarraian Rules of Engagement, you'd be opening up on any radar blips which failed the first IFF pulse and you'd be doing so as far outside of their engagement envelope as possible.

Were it not for the delusions of grandeur that such aircraft might cause among the theocrats who rule Iran, I'd say they should build as many of these 1960's vintage machines as they possibly can.  Doing so would tie up a significant portion of their industrial base, their resources, and their engineering talents.  The only problem they'd present for our side is ensuring that we've enough AMRAAM's in stock to have plenty left over after we've splashed them all in the first wave.

Yes, if we let their aircraft - of whatever vintage and limited capacity - in close enoug and in enough number then they could do significant damage to us.  But that's the thing, our capabilities are such that a 1960's tech equivalent machine would _not_ get in that close.

Madoc
Madoc

[Tophe]

Sorry... I started a topic about the same airplane in the twin-tail forum at http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index...ST&f=20&t=11955
I just don't come here often enough and the topic's title did not strike me when I tried to see if the subject had already been considered...
I apologize.

[Sisko]

Okay, lemme clarify my remarks a bit.

Given the prediliction of our armed forces to expend ordnance - matter how costly each individual round might be - at almost inordinate rates if they think doing so will keep them alive in combat, then I'd not be at all surprised to see our guys standing off a BVR and splashing every one of these homegrown Iranian fighters.

Yeah, they'd then paint the kill markings on their birds and probably get into no few bar fights afterwards having to uphold the principle of the kills being legit and challenging.

Yes, in the hands of extremely experienced combat pilots flying against western aircraft that they are intimately familiar with and engaging them in tightly scripted and intentionally unfavorable conditions, small point defense interceptors like the F-5, can gain an advantage over the larger, fully laden, air superiority fighters.  Especially when they are required to keep their long range radars off but still lug around all those big and heavy long range missiles.

In the real world, especially if you're not hindered by any Johnsonian/ MacNamarraian Rules of Engagement, you'd be opening up on any radar blips which failed the first IFF pulse and you'd be doing so as far outside of their engagement envelope as possible.

Were it not for the delusions of grandeur that such aircraft might cause among the theocrats who rule Iran, I'd say they should build as many of these 1960's vintage machines as they possibly can.  Doing so would tie up a significant portion of their industrial base, their resources, and their engineering talents.  The only problem they'd present for our side is ensuring that we've enough AMRAAM's in stock to have plenty left over after we've splashed them all in the first wave.

Yes, if we let their aircraft - of whatever vintage and limited capacity - in close enoug and in enough number then they could do significant damage to us.  But that's the thing, our capabilities are such that a 1960's tech equivalent machine would _not_ get in that close.

Madoc
Madoc

It is an interesting looking beast.

I guess that we will see how good or not they are in the inevitable up coming conflict with Iran.