What-if Delta III

[Tornado]

Fairey Delta III F.Mk.1

Span 8.5m, length 16.74m, height 4.11m, wing area 54.8m2, powerplant 1x  15,680lb Avon 302 or 15,000-21,250lb RB.106 Thames, maximum speed M 2.5 at altitude, range 1,130 miles, armament 2x ADEN 30mm under intakes and four underwing hardpoints 1,000lb each inner and 700lb each outer for a maximum of 3400lbs, four Firestreak or Red Top two underwing and two on wingtips.

During the Delta IIs test and research programme which included breaking the international world speed record the RAF decided to re-organise the fighter defences of the nation. The SR.53 and SR.177 (as it would become) were cancelled and the Lightning was chosen as the main point-defence interceptor with its excellent rate of climb but limited armament. Fairey was asked to develop their Delta II into a lighter fighter able to dogfight the latest Soviet fighters. These fighters were to replace the Hunter overseas, mostly units based in West Germany.

More to come...

Fairey then had to redesign the aircraft to make it into a fighter. The wing planform was unchanged but it was enlarged and the nose was made fatter to accommodate a better cockpit and AI.23 radar. The rear fuselage was only slightly widened and the new RB.106 Thames was fitted because it fitted into the same space yet offered higher thrust than the Avon. However development slowed and the Avon was substituted in the F.Mk.1. Flight trials began with an Avon fitted on September 9th 1959 and by 1963 it was entering service. In July 1963 the first Thames powered aircraft made its first flight and on completion of trials the whole fleet were re-engined from 1965-67. In all 130 were built of the F.Mk.1 and Mk.2 (all of which had the Thames). Later versions were optimised for ground-attack work.

Fairey worked on a bigger brother the Delta IV (the real D III) for F.155T but by 1958 all work was stopped on this ambitious project and instead the Lightning and Delta would offer the future defence.

[GTX]

Nice work - it has a a definite Mirage III look (apart from the intakes).

Regards,

Greg

[Zen]

Nice the competitor Lockheed and Dassault must have most feared would emerge.

Additional idea....Vickers small radar missile aka scaled Red Hebe, driven by the manufacturers wanting a smaller and lighter AAM than the full scale weapon.
Weight 650lb, Length 14ft. You can see a picture of it mounted on the P1103 model in Tony Butlers Book BSP Fighters.

Further....simple export bomber, stripped out the AI.23, with a Avon.

Third thought...1970's version would have slopped 2D style inlets for better AoA performance.

[GTX]

How about some RAAF ones - here's some inspiration:



or maybe a RAAF ARDU bird like these:




Regards,

Greg

[NARSES2]

I have the old Frog kit in the stash and had always "planed" building her as a fighter. May have to put her in the pending pile

[Tornado]

Fairey Delta III FR.Mk.3

Span 8.5m, length 16.74m, height 4.11m, wing area 54.8m2, powerplant 1x 15,000-21,250lb RB.106 Thames, maximum speed M 2.5 at altitude, range 1,130 miles, armament 2x ADEN 30mm under intakes and four underwing hardpoints 2,000lb each inner and 1000lb each outer for a maximum of 6000lbs, four Firestreak or Red Top two underwing and two on wingtips.

To replace the Hunter in the ground attack and reconnaissance roles the FR.3 was developed. The AI.23 radar was replaced by four cameras and a smaller Blue Wicket ranging radar. The underwing hardpoints were improved and the RB.106 was fitted in all 114 examples built from 1965. Some served in Aden and in the Far East during the late 1960s. This model was the basis for an export version powered by the RR Avon 301.

In 1974-77 another 165 were built with an improved 15,980-24,200lb RB.106-22 engine and new 2,500lb ventral hardpoint. The nose was altered again and fitted with LRMTS and a terrain-avoidance radar. About 70 FR.Mk.3 were also upgraded to this standard. All of these were designated the GR.Mk.4 and were in service until 1994, some saw service in the Gulf War armed with LGB.

F.Mk.4

By the early 1970s the RAF was worried that all its attempts to field new fighters had been scuppered by either financial or technical difficulties. Therefore in 1970 work began on an improved model. The RB.106 was again upgraded, 15,850-25,150lb RB.106-32 and a stronger rear fuselage incorporated. The intakes were improved and Blue Parrot radar added along with a retractable FRP. By 1967 the Vickers Red Hebe was ready and this equipped the F.Mk.2 from 1968 and the F.Mk.4 could carry four, two ventral two underwing and four IR AAM. Only 52 were built but these served until 1993 while most F.Mk.1 and 2s were retired during the mid 1980s.

[Archibald]

Wow!! Tornado your profiles are so cool!
Fairey proposed Delta-II derivatives two times
- a private proposal (ER-103 B/C) was made in 1956
- Another, "official" was for F-155T (it was a small Delta III)
Both were not considered or ruled out quickly...  :dum:
Some specs
(have you red British secret projects before starting this thread? I have doubts )

ER-103B
Powerplant : Gyron or RB-122 (which was a RB-106 derivative )
Normal weight : 9 tons
span : 8.5m
length : 16.7 m

ER-103C
Aircraft quite similar, but with a Ferranti radar, and Firestreak missiles, 13 tons, mach 2.26 at 55 000 ft, time to climb at 45 000 ft  : 1.9 mn.

Fairey "small" Delta III (for F-155T)
Powerplant : 1 Gyron+spectre
Weight 13.5 tons
span: 11.4 m
length : 17.1 m
Wing area 55m2

(Your project is really a mix between the small Delta-III and the ER-103C )

One day I compared the Mirage III and Delta II... and was astonished to see how close their dimensions and weight were. Don't forget that GB was vastly superior to France in the field of engines and weapon system (SNECMA Vs Rolls, Ferranti Vs Thompson...)

[Zen]

I'll add here the F155T DeltaII machine was offered as a faster to service and cheaper solution. Fairey felt it would take some 30 months to bring a prototype to flight and a ISD for 1962 was quite achievable.

Gyron was the intial option with the RB122 (42 inch version of the 37 inch RB106) to follow. We can speculate that like the Delta III, alternative engines like the Conway, Olympus and Medway would be possible to fit into the engine bay.

[Tornado]

Yes I have read BSP: Fighters many times from cover to cover!

My Delta III is totally fictional designed to be as cheap as possible, like a P.1121 in many ways, a good all-round design that is state of the art but not too optimistic as F.155T was.

It is a Mirage type fighter designed for export sales in mind but offering a cheap Hunter reaplace bteer than the P.1154. I've used the RB.106 to save weight and space but the RB.122 would be just as good.

Export profiles to come next when I get more time...

[Archibald]

Good idea. I alway thought that the best solution for the British aircraft industry would have been a Delta-II derivative to compete with the Mirage III (1422 sold worlwide) and F-104 (around 2200+). The Lightning was too specialised, the P.1121 was a long haul (more in the Phantom class), the SR-177 had this rocket engine... only the Delta-II could do it!  as I said (sorry to repeat)  a MirageIII-like but with a much superior engine and weapon system...

The best solution would have been getting ride off the three others fighters already mentioned, invest for 5 years on this Delta-II derivative and sell it massively abroad. After that, you have enough money to study its successor, or a complement aircraft (trainer, dedicated / cheap  ground-attack aircraft and the like).

That was the way followed by Dassault and the French governement : nearly all fighters projects were killed around 1958 in favor of the Mirage III (Mirage IVC and SO-4060 heavy fighters, Trident rocket-fighter,  Vautour night-fighter, naval fighters, transonic fighters such as SMB-2 or NATO LWF).
In compensation, the sole Mirage III was build in many differents variants...
Only after the Mirage III completion (around 1963) were laucnhed new prototypes, program and finally successors...
To my mind, it was the only way to go for medium-power such as GB, France or...Sweden.
(well this is only my point of view!!)

Wait the other profiles impatiently!!  

[kitnut617]

One day I compared the Mirage III and Delta II... and was astonished to see how close their dimensions and weight were. Don't forget that GB was vastly superior to France in the field of engines and weapon system (SNECMA Vs Rolls, Ferranti Vs Thompson...)

Hi Archibald,

You might recall, that the Delta II spent a lot of time at the Dassault flight testing range.  There was a lot of restrictions to do supersonic flights in the UK, so this was done in France. The Dassault engineers had a lot of time to go over the Delta II so it's not as surprising as you might think as to the similarities.  If the truth was known, it might have even been the arrangement between Fairey and Dassault because Fairey knew that their aircraft was only going to be a research aircraft and only a few were going to be built.

:cheers:Robert

[Archibald]

I never known the exact truth on this story... in every case, the Mirage 01 and I flew in 1955, the Mirage II was never built, all of this to say that Dassault and the AdA had difficulties to fix definitively the size, weight and performances of the Mirage-III. This was done only in 1958 with the Mirage IIIA... which is the most similar to the delta II in size and weight.
In this case, the Mirage III would be a Delta-II / F-104 hybrid ? If you prefers, a Delta II with F-104 air-intakes ?
Something interesting to dugg... but don't tell that to Dassault!!!  

[Zen]

Theres a thought, Sweden.....

Now that might sound insane, but Sweden did buy the Hunter in limited numbers, and SAAB was hard pressed to meet the scale of the Drakken order.

[Tornado]

Ok guys the wait is over!

I've taken the exports and thought what would Israel do if they brought some, the Kfir would be a Delta of course! What-if South Africa brought some, the Cheetah would also be a Delta.



IAI Kfir

Span 8.5m, length 16.86m, height 4.19m, wing area 54.8m2, powerplant 1x 23,810lb P&W F100-PW-100 turbofan, maximum speed M 2.5 at altitude, range 1,058 miles, armament 2x ADEN 30mm under intakes and six underwing hardpoints 2,000lb four inner and 1000lb each outer for a maximum of 10000lbs, 2x 1,000lb ventral racks for bombs or AAMs and two on wingtip rails for AAMs.

Israel brought some fifty F.Mk.1 standard fighters in 1964 but thereafter export bans prevented more deliveries. Israel wanted some FR.Mk.3 type fighters for ground attack but none were forthcoming. In 1975 the Kfir was first flown. It was soon clear IAI had copied the Delta III. New ramp intakes and canards were fitted as was a powerful PW F100 turbofan in the larger rear fuselage. In the nose was an Elta multi-mode radar and a new ground-mapping radar was also fitted. 185 were built and later modified into C3 standard. Some surplus aircraft went to Ecuador and Argentina. Of the original fifty fighters about 12 were rebuilt as C2 fighters, these were almost identical to the C1 type. Both British and American sourced AAMs were fitted to these fighters. BAC (Fairey) tried to regain lost royalties and illegal copying of their fighter throughout the 1970s and in 1994 IAI finally paid £175 million to BAE.

Atlas Cheetah

In 1966 South Africa brought 50 Delta IIIS ground attack fighters to the same standards as the RAF FR.Mk.3. From 1986 Atlas and IAI rebuilt 43 of these into two-seater ground-attack fighters. Two ventral hardpoints were added (2,000lb each and two more under the intakes (700lb each). The IAI developed intakes and canards were also fitted along with new radar and ECM. A bolt-on IFR probe was also fitted. The navigator occupied the place of the fuel tank and some electronic equipment which was moved into the longer nose. Red Hebe was retained by these fighters.



Exports (All-weather fighters)

Only three nations were able to buy the F.Mk.2 standard fighter and Red Hebe missiles. Israel brought 50, the RAAF signed a licence order and Commonwealth built 198 IIIO fighters. From 1989 they were replaced by Panavia Tornado fighters. They had served well in Vietnam and South East Asia. Having lost the 'sale of the century' Germany chose the F-104 having found the Saro P.177K cancelled, the Netherlands preferred the Delta III but felt obliged to buy the American fighter for standardisation and cheaper costs. Belgium brought the Mirage because of French pressure and only Norway in Europe brought 56 of the type in 1966. These were in used until 1995. All other exports would be the FR.Mk.3 type fighter with ranging radar and cheaper avionics.

[Tornado]

Here are some more export Deltas with colourful schemes and some unusual ones.





Exports (Ground Attack Fighters)

The RAF FR.Mk.3 was the basis for the majority of the export fighters with ranging radar and three cameras as versatile strike-recon fighters.

Argentina in 1968 brought 20 and in 1974 brought another 30 modernised Delta IIIG fighters with the 15,850-25,150lb RB.106-32 engine. During the Falklands Invasion these fighters flew top-cover and tried to intercept the Vulcan Black Buck missions without success. French Mirages were also brought and these were fitted with Exocet. Six Deltas were lost to Sea Harriers.

India chose the Delta over the MiG-21 and brought 178 over six years from 1966. Fairey refused to let them build any under licence so production was limited to these aircraft. All were identical to the RAF FR.Mk.3. They flew well during the 1971 war and downed several F-104 fighters.

Peru brought 35 D.IIIP in 1970 and these were in service until 1997. From 1989 they have been used as bombers. Extra communications equipment was fitted.

Venezuela in 1969 brought 24 D.IIIV fighters and these were in use until 1992. These fighters had one 2,000lb ventral hardpoint.

Singapore in 1975 received 15 ex-RAF FR.Mk.3 fighters and these were used alongside Hunter T.Mk.7s until 1994. They were fitted with the 15,850-25,150lb RB.106-32.

In 1968 Portugal brought 24 D.IIIP fighters and later in 1977 another 20 ex-RAF FR.Mk.3 were brought. These were in use until 1990. All were built to FR.Mk.3 standard and featured the standard LABS system.

In 1966 Yugoslavia signed an order for 35 fighters and in 1969 deliveries began of the IIIY. Some 66 were built. The radar was downgraded and some equipment was omitted but in Yugoslav hands Soviet systems were fitted. These fighters were used alongside MiG-21s until 1991.