To Whatiff or Not to Whatiff

[cthulhu77]

I had an odd conversation at the local hobby store this weekend, with a group of armor modelers who really know their stuff, with some airpower junkies adding in comments.
  Basically, they were ridiculing the what if models that I make now and again as being historically innaccurate, and therefore, not true models.  Now, arguing with this sort is like pissing into a nice headwind, and I usually just nod and smile, but this time I had my dander up a tad.
  I am lucky enough to have had a grandfather who served in WW1 (now deceased, sadly), and a father who served in the second...and one thing that was drilled into my head from every story they told was of the shortage of supplies at the front, and the amazing ability of the soldiers to "make do" with whatever they could find.  I get really pissed when someone blabs about RLM *&*(%^$$ on the lower interior wing nut of something, because these people have obviously never been involved in the military, where things are done catch-as-can, and what-iffery is a way of staying alive, not falling into "military specs" written by some geek who doesn't know how to cock the bolt.
 Sure enough, not one of these geeksperts had ever been in, but they sure were good at voicing their opinion, as if THEY had been the one's with their butts on the line.
  I am afraid I let out a long burst of MY opinion as to their supposed expertness, which means I had some of the people grinning, and others quite red, as I pointed out the flaws in their kits. Just because I like to model in the real world, the world where things are done because they have to be done (like mounting mortars on a PT boat to blow up some Japanese barges that are carrying supplies, even though it is against regulations written up by the staff), and using ingenuity to overcome an evil obstacle, like the german war machine...yeah, they put out some well crafted machines...that were so custom made that many of the parts were not interchangeable, rendering hundreds of planes and tanks unusable. Thank the heaven's that we had men and women able to think on their feet and "What If?" in the field, and come up with realistic solutions that enabled our forces to kick their donkey.

  Rant over.

                        Greg

[rallymodeller]

I have often said that what amazes me is that a lot of the aviation modelers who ridicule our sort of "what-if" are the same ones who would build a Luft '46 subject and go on as to it's merits. As if a design based on a napkin scribbling by Kurt Tank is any more realistic than, say, a Canadian A-7 or an Operation Granby TSR.2. Sorry, guys -- these planes actually were built.

I just smile and nod...

[philp]

hmmm...
What is wrong with my club.  I have never had anyone come up to me and say anything derogatory about my whiffs (ok, only finished 2 so far) or my sci fi kits.

The funny thing is several of the local aircraft guys have done a whiff or 2 in the past.  

Last meeting I talked about my ROK F-47 and the only comment I got based on my alternate history was that it was interesting and a small discussion on why F-51's were used instead when the F-47 would have been a better choice.

Guess we are a little more laid back here (or the talking is behind my back) but that could change when I bring in a whiffed armor piece or a plane with those Mormon markings on it...

[B777LR]

Do a Mig-37B ferret. Then ask the tank- and aviation modellers that are obsessed with RLM colours, what they would do  

[Radish]

My club positively enthuse about Whifs and add suggestions, most of which are usually clean!  

[Alvis 3.1]

Yeah, not a "real" model. If it didn't exist, then it's ineligible to be built? Wow, then I guess all those models built by contractors to illustrate what a concept looks like before metal is cut shouldn't have been built then either? Cuz, at one point, there WERE no Bf-109s, or M4 Shermans...just drawings and god forbid...models of something that didn't exist.


THAT shut up my most vocal anti-what-if critic! ^_^


And, any modeller worth his salt will look at the model and see what you did...not what it is. Skills are skills, regardless of the subject. Anything else is pure ego and little pee rings.


And NOTHING irks them more than what you did! More power to you! Keep up the good work!



Alvis 3.1

[AeroplaneDriver]

I love the way the JMN crowd rant about "history" being the reason they are agianst whiffery.  They really think that knowing the exact shade to paint the underneath of a P-51 seat, or the proper length of a JU87 cannon barrel makes them professors of military history.

To me there is a much greater depth of historical knowledge to be gained by researching the sequence of events that would have lead to RAF F-105s or USAF Meteors than in obsessing over colors and such.

[Phnx28]

...To me there is a much greater depth of historical knowledge to be gained by researching the sequence of events that would have lead to RAF F-105s or USAF Meteors than in obsessing over colors and such.

Fully seconded and *BUMPED*! I wouldn't be surprised if many of the the more Arendtian or Platonically-minded types even partially forget now that other designs were considered (as they usually were whatever the government's supposed policy, dictatorship or no...) vis-a-vis the ones that made it. Saddened, since even real history requires a bit of the conspiracy theory mindset to actually investigate, but not surprised.
And yes; what good is RLM color obsessing if you want to model a Geman factory-defense plane or an ace's mount? If I get comments like that on my in-pipeline AH1RO I'll just kindly direct them to several of my pocket guides on aircraft and even (GASP! ) the instruction booklet, which clearly mentions the possibility of a Romanian Cobra. A better attitude is one I found on a site done years back (probably gone since I can't find it now) which had a Roco T-62 done up in Polish colors and simply pointed out the whiff nature of the model once the webmaster had been notified Poland never used T-62s. (An inadvertent whiff since the modeler only found out after doing it. Didn't each of the Warsaw Pact states form trial units for it at least before deciding whether to take the T-62 or not?)

[lancer]

Nice one Greg!!! I always like to see these jumped up little arseholes getting thier comeuppance

[Mossie]

Good one Greg, stir it up!  I hate these kind of people whose own opinion is always right & anyone elses is wrong.

I've never come face to face with modllers like this as there isn't much in the way of clubs where I live, but I've come across it on a fair few forums.  I normally stay out of these conversations, but sometimes, if I'm feeling mischeivous, I like to fire a shot across their bows & see what happens.  If it ends up with them just plain insulting you, you know you've hit home & rattled their cage!

Another thing I hate to see is people just slag someone elses work to bits.  So what if you can't scratch build the interior workings of a pocket watch in 1/750 scale, or even put a decal on straight?  That individual has put their time in & got their own enjoyment out of it, it may not be a work of art but theres no need for other people to smash someones confidence to massage their own insecurities.

Anyway thats my rant!

Simon.

[AeroplaneDriver]

The term Numpty is one of my personal favorites, and probably is more appropriate.

Still think there is a small percentage of narrow-minded-wild-eyed-rabid-modellers for whom the original term is probably a decent fit though.

[Eddie M.]

Brillant observation on the making due with what you've got in the field Greg. Can anyone tell me how many variations there were of the hedge cutters at Normandy? Probably too many to count as they were made with materials at hand. I can tell you from experience, that in the two crash crews I was in, we had different tools to do the same job on both ships. All we were given was a guideline for the said equipment and fashioned what we needed. More recently, Humvees in the field were up armored with what was available. Try to find a Nimitz class carrier that is exactly like it's sister before it. Won't happen. There is a learning curve on each one. I could go on and on..... Good on ya, Greg. Besides, we all know they are jealous that their prefab minds can't think out of the box and build something original.  
   Eddie

[Keith Diamond]

Modeling is meant to be a fun hobby
Modeling = Fun Hobby
M=FH

WhIf modeling is typically more fun than the average model
WhIf > Modeling
W > M

Average model is much more fun than a rivet counting model
Average modeling > Rivet counting model (JMNs)
M > JMN

Wookiees are taller than Ewoks
Wookies > Ewoks
W > E
(WTF is a wookie doing on a planet full of Ewoks???)
W > E = WTF

Therefore if:

M = FH, W > M, M > JMN and W > E = WTF
W > M = FH > JMN and W > E = WTF

Therefore, a WhIf project is more fun than the average modeling project, and a JMN project is less fun than the average modeling project.  Since the average modeling project is considered a fun hobby, and a JMN project is less fun than the average modeling project, a JMN project is not a fun hobby.  Since it doesn't make sense to have a non fun hobby, being a JMN makes as much sense as a 8 ft Wookie, living on Endor with 3 ft Ewoks.

[John Howling Mouse]

... the exact shade to paint the underneath of a P-51 seat ...

You mean I have to bin all my Mustangs 'cause I didn't paint the undersides of their seats?!   :dum:

I've never encountered direct opposition to What Iffing but my favorite is the knowing little smile and slight nod of head when the LHS cashier asks me what I plan to do with the latest model acquisition and I tell him "turn it into a floatplane" or "put a t-tail on it."

It's as though I've just revealed to the guy that I just had scones and tea with the man on the moon (which I never would as I hate scones).

[AeroplaneDriver]

... the exact shade to paint the underneath of a P-51 seat ...

You mean I have to bin all my Mustangs 'cause I didn't paint the undersides of their seats?!   :dum:

I've never encountered direct opposition to What Iffing but my favorite is the knowing little smile and slight nod of head when the LHS cashier asks me what I plan to do with the latest model acquisition and I tell him "turn it into a floatplane" or "put a t-tail on it."

It's as though I've just revealed to the guy that I just had scones and tea with the man on the moon (which I never would as I hate scones).

Not to get off topic or anything, but what sort of weirdo doesn't like scones???