P-61 Black Widow

[KJ_Lesnick]

That looks like a relatively small turret compared the one on the P-61

[apophenia]

Well have a glance at the Boulton Paul P.92 in reply #77 ... and that was a tiddler compared to what the RAF was considering for future bombers at that time.

[KJ_Lesnick]

Apophenia,

And that was a quad-20mm turret?  That looks a lot more streamlined than the turret on the P-61 even though the P-61's turret was smaller

[KJ_Lesnick]

Was it necessary to have the radar-operator's cockpit to be mounted so high above the pilot's cockpit?  Why didn't they just place him directly behind the pilot?

[Cobra]

KJ, When the Widow was Built it was Almost Required to Keep the Radar Set away from the Pilot's Position.No Way for Radar & Radio to Cancel Each Other out. Hope this helps.Dan PS:i sent you a PM. let me know if you got it,OK?

[KJ_Lesnick]

Cobra,

KJ, When the Widow was Built it was Almost Required to Keep the Radar Set away from the Pilot's Position.

But the radar set is located in front of both the pilot and the radar-operator...

[Cobra]

it might have been for Visual Check to make sure an ME-109 or 110 wasn't Sneaking up on them.

[KJ_Lesnick]

Cobra,

It might have been for Visual Check to make sure an ME-109 or 110 wasn't Sneaking up on them.

Isn't that the rear-gunner's job?  I don't think the P-61 radar-operator's cockpit has any rear-visibility

[jcf]

The radar operator was situated in the rear of the nacelle, the position behind the pilot is the gunner.

[KJ_Lesnick]

JCF,

The radar operator was situated in the rear of the nacelle, the position behind the pilot is the gunner.

Oh...  That clarifies things a lot!  Okay, I can understand why he was raised above the pilot, but still did the second cockpit have to be raised up so much?  It looks awfully clunky and excessively draggy.

[apophenia]

Mostly the gunner's position is raised for sighting but, remember, that the gunner also straddled the retracted nose wheel. If the upper turret and radar op/gunner position was eliminated on a night fighter version, you could reverse the crew positions (although the result is seriously ugly!).

Putting the pilot up and behind would allow a clear view canopy and a shorter nacelle. Mind you, the gunner would still in line with prop blades in the case of a wheels-up landing (as the RW P-61 pilot was).

[KJ_Lesnick]

Apophenia

Mostly the gunner's position is raised for sighting but, remember, that the gunner also straddled the retracted nose wheel.

The wheel well was high enough up to require the cockpit to be raised that high up?  How much higher was the gunner's cockpit over the regular pilot's cockpit?  How much do you think you would actually require?

[apophenia]

No, the XP-61E shows that the rear cockpit could be lowered. But, again, the backseater in the 'E was a navigator not a gunner. He had no need for sights.

[rickshaw]

Make the front wheel smaller or make it twist and lie flat and the need to raise the cockpit is reduced.

[KJ_Lesnick]

Strange roll-spoiler configuration, they look almost like dive-brakes