22 ideas (and missed opportunities)

[Archibald]

You mean Hawker P.1081 ? It was dropped in favor of the Hunter (which had much more growth potential) after australia chose the Sabre in 1951.
The Black Prince, that's it. It was sadly scrapped in favor of Europe which, as the Malta class carrier, was doomed from the start by a wrong organisation.
Good website on the subject  
http://www.spaceuk.org/bstreak/bs/bsslv.htm

[Archibald]

Here's a slightly upgraded list
1- Vickers type C heavy bomber is developped .(later variant with Proteus, interim type waiting THE v-bomber
2- building the gibraltar carriers in 1945 (obtain funding by cancelling the Ark and Eagle, scrap the victorious!)
3- Miles M52 receive "super priority"
4-Merge the 14 different aircraft makers in 3 groups right from 1948
5-Make the hunter the ONLY day fighter (if it is troubled, buy F-86 Sabre)
6- Make the Vixen the only FAW (both RN and RAF)
7- Make the Victor the only V-bomber
8- Avon, Conway, Medway/Spey are the main engines (not the only!)  
9- After 1958 : The Bucc is the low level bomber (no TSR-2)
10- The Victor receive the Blue Steel (later mk2) becoming a standoff missile carrier to complete the bucc for nuclear deterrent.
11- OR-330 scrapped, OR-336 (= EE P.10) are for recon only (British Blackbird!)
12- ER-103C (AkA the fighter variant of the Fairey Delta II) replace the Hunter (after thriumphing of the Lightning, P.1121 and SR-177.
13- Vickers VC-7 is funded by the RAF as transport (and later tanker). Civil variant is a success, smashing the 707. AEW, maritime patroll, cargo...(no comet 4)
14- Rotodyne developed into a powerful tactical transport for the Army, RN...
15- More Short Belfast are ordered.
16- HS-681 also become operational (along the Belfast and Rotodyne)
17- To replace the Gibraltar, Eagle and Ark Royal, CVA-01 become a cooperative program with France (later, in the 70's due to the refit of the Maltas)
18- Bombcorde replace the Victor as stand-off missile platform.
19- Blackburn P.141 complete the ER-103C as long range interceptor in the 70's
20- Development of the Blue Dolphin SARH to arm them.
21- Black Prince (as Diamant in France) keep on as backup for the Europa rocket)
22- Hawker P.1216 replace the Harrier GR.3 in 1986.
23- After the failure of the Jaguar trainer (too expensive) France GB and Germany join for a subsonic jet trainer, the AlphaHawk.  
24- The AEW aircraft of the RAF is based on the VC-7, with a rotordome (not big bulge)

[elmayerle]

14- More Short Belfast are ordered.

... reaching their destinations just before the crew succumbs to scurvy. I think 'RAF buys C-141 so journey time measured without aid of calandar' is more likely...

How about buying and building the proposed Belfast C.Mk.2 which used the wings and, I think, tail of the C-141?  Add some good RR engines (Conways or ??) and you're good to go.  This, of course, is followed by the Belfast C.3 which is the C.2 stretched ala' the C-141B.

[Archibald]

That's a good idea, which could have satisfied everyone... jet engines, short/ lockheed hybrid...
Ok,
15- C-141/ Belfast is produced as long-range cargo (later exported to France instead of the AdA DC-8s)  

[Archibald]

Ok guys I need data on the vickers VC-7 (type 1000 for the RAF).
Is there any pics / 3-views available somewhere ?
How does it look like ? a VC-10 with wing-roots engines ? a VC-10 with Valiant wings ?
I'm confused...
The VC-7 could have fulfilled a lot of roles devoted to the Comet IV, VC-10 and Britannia (Maritime patroll, AEW, ELINT, tanker, cargo...). )

[Alvis 3.1]

I think the reason the UK dropped their space program was the increased threat of either Cybermen or Daleks finding Earth.


I'm pretty sure I saw a BBC series that explained it that way...

Seriously, some great missed opportunities there, and a few that were likely just as well to have missed the boat. But I couldn't bear the thought of no Vulcans!


Alvis 3.1

[Archibald]

But I couldn't bear the thought of no Vulcans! 

This is a FLEXIBLE scenario so we can invert Vulcan and Victor if you want
I'm too, a great fan of the Vulcan (just made my first bird in french colors ) but in the end the Victor despite more conventional forms had aparently better performances.
Well, try to ask the question on Key Publishing : "Vulcan or Victor : who was the better " and wait the answer (be sure that a stupid people will start to talk about delta wings, leading to the SR-71 and then the MiG-25... was it able to intercept the Blackbird ? "    

[Runway ? ...]

Just a quickie on the UK space program. We were still putting up space junk until a couple of years ago. Nothing flash, but we were there. I believe the official story is we stopped when we ran out of missiles. Most people here don't even know that.
links to follow if I can find any  

Personally I think our stuff just got too cool for the neighbours and had to go really, really "how much more black can you get" err..  black    

Move along now, nothing to see here. No space program. That's err.. Just a reality TV show    

[mrdj]

v-1000

Not a very happy set, but there are good details in there.

[Archibald]

thank you very, very, very much!!! The model looks fine...
Wasn't the Conway a kind of "primitive" turbofan (with a very low bypass ratio) ? In every case, its growth potential was much superior to the civil variant of the J-57^powering the 707s...  

[elmayerle]

Wasn't the Conway a kind of "primitive" turbofan (with a very low bypass ratio) ? In every case, its growth potential was much superior to the civil variant of the J-57^powering the 707s...

The Conway, like the JT3D/TF33, was a low-bypass turbofan.  The JT3D/TF33 was a comparatively simple conversion of the JT3C/J57 into a turbofan; a redesign facilitated by the twin-spool configuration of the original engine.  Even this low bypass ration improved fuel economy which explains why most of the later 707s, DC-8s, et al. used JT3Ds or, like the 707-435, Conways.

[Archibald]

It seems someone moved this thread (or I'm becoming crazy ? too much loctite fumes, and this damned Mega Mirage...   )

Just a question : was the VC-10 really different from the VC-7 (a part from the engines location, I mean!)
Would it be possible to take the airfix 1/144 VC-10 K2 and move the four engines in the wings roots (adding four bumps at the rear of the wings and  making rectangular air intakes at the roots ?)

[Archibald]

Nice 3 view (from secret projects)

[Archibald]

here's a possible variant of the VC7

[mrdj]

The VC-10/ Vanguard fuselage seems more like a "double bubble" like a DC-8. The pictures of the fuselage seems more circular, like a Viscount (probably a bit larger). The rest of it seems like a Valiant wing (bigger engines). and VC-10 tail surfaces. Now if we can figure out the u/c we'll be set. The paint scheme would have to be RAF Transport Command, BOAC wasn't overly thrilled with it.


Time to start digging in the scrap box. The Jag is almost finished, I need something to do...