F-104Z

[Ollie]

I don't think so...  Any turbulence will be found in the wake, far from any flying plane.  I'm more worried about the middle wing blanketing the stabs at high-alpha angles, something that all T-tails are subjected to.  But here, with the big center section, things would be interesting to observe in a wind tunnel!  

 

[Captain Canada]

If you un-focus your eyes it makes it a little easier to read.  

Oh you clown.........I'm still laughing.....and trying hard to unfocus !

Toad

[Tophe]

Thanks to Paul D.   , here is the translation :

<< The F 104G TR Project.
One made of two.
The linking of two airframes together to produce a new higher performance
design is since a long time the fascination of aircraft builders. In the course of time,a few designs
saw the light of the day. Well known are the Heinkel He 111Z and the North American F.82 Twin Mustang.
Only the F.82 reached substantial production with 272 aircraft. While the above mentioned models are well documented ,the design of the Twin Starfighter is not. With the development of the Breguet Atlantic submarine hunter, question arose for an active longrange escort/defender aircraft to protect the turboprop sub hunter. At the end of the fifties, the firms of Bölkow, Heinkel and Messerschmitt  formed the Entwicklungsring Süd - Development Circle/Ring South. The new Firm came in 1963 with the idea for a Twin Starfighter as a
longrange escort aircraft. To link the two fuselages together,a new central wing must be designed. Few changes were needed to the fuselage compared with the normal Starfighter. With two cockpits available the constructor suggested the to add a navigator in the second cockpit. This crewmember could in case of emergency also control the aircraft. Undercarriage, tail and tailplane and fuselage remained unchanged. The new centrepiece wing had provision for a 3e brake chute and it contained a steerable rocket  engine. With this engine the twinStarfighter needed only a short run to take off. It was also able to climb very fast to a very high ceiling if needed. For the task of the plane ,the normal NASARR radar was unsuited thus need arose for a new search and guide radar system. Also the armament came in question. The short-range Sidewinder was changed for the Medium range Sparrrow. An importend factor was the fuel reserve. Beside the usual tanks in the fuselage and the underwing tanks room was made in the no longer need bay of the Vulcan 20mm guns. Since only one radar bay was needed in the two fuselages ,one could be used  for fuel storage. Total weight of fuel for the new design was 9760kg compared with the 4760kg for the F104G. The meaning of "TR" is unknown to the author. Maybe someone of the readers knows more. In the end, after much calculating work ,it was decided that the new plane
could not reach the goal set by the Services. Radius of action was to short, yet with the large amount of fuel.
There was also some doubt about he flying qualities of the Twin fuselage design. The benefits of the double Starfighter were not clear and the there was more against than pro and so the development was halted and the F.104 G TR remained a drawing board aircraft. The project was layed off early 1964.>>

So this was a real project... and an old one, the name of EADS being only the Archive location now (like North American projects are now revealed from Boeing Archives). And there are very interesting thoughts about advantages and drawbacks of a Zwilling aircraft instead of a bigger purpose-optimised design...

[Tophe]

From the great site of our dear Martin H ( http://groups.msn.com/TheWhatifandoddballm...ge/shoebox.msnw ), , I bring this USAF plastic model , built or photographed by our dear Thorvic.

More details would be very welcome... (and as Thorvic is webmaster too, could he transfer this old topic from the workbench forum to the more appropriate twin-tail/zwilling forum?). Thanks.  

[Julhelm]

It'd look cooler if it had a central pod with the F104 cockpit on it and just giant SR-71-style intakes on the engines.

[The Rat]

I can't see the pictures, I've tried and tried and tried, but all I see is red X's.    Thorvic's pic shows up, but that's it.

[John Howling Mouse]

Yep, they've reverted to mere red X's.  They WERE there before.

Tophe, did you exceed your Photobucket.com account again?

^_^  

[Tophe]

Uh... it is just because this is a very very old topic, 2 years ago, and old pictures are discarded for this site to welcome new pictures, by webmasters or automatic process, not myself. I will look for the source and post them again.
I have not created a new topic as it is interesting to have the full History of the German F-104Z actual project (Sep.14 2003 reply above)...

[Tophe]

Here is a 3-view drawing that I received with a German article that I do not understand. I don't remember exactly but I think I got it from Justo Miranda, the very nice author of the Reichdreams collection ( http://www.luft46.com/rd/rdreams.html ) . This comes from the magazine Flugzeuge January 2001.

posted again, 2005:

[Tophe]

And the last picture below...

As well:

[Geoff_B]

The model at Doncaster was by one of Geoff P's mates called Eddie who aslo did the Biochem V-1 launching S-Boat and was doing the Tiger/V-2 hybrid.

As Tophe says original uploaded pictures from before the server change all dissappeared, Tom could keep the threads but not the attached files.

Geoff B B)  

[Tophe]

---UPDATE 2006---
The same design is presented at http://www.bredow-web.de/Luftwaffenmuseum/...geschichte.html with this text (translated from German with BabelFish):
"The suggestion of a twin-fuselage F-104G was an escort fighter for long-distance patrols. Even F-104 with double fuselage were designed, but never built."
In the same article is a weird 4-engine F-104 and, most of all, a twin-fuselage flying tank (Schlepptanks= dragging tank?). One more twin-fuselage added to my collection, yes!

[The Rat]

Ooooh I like that bottom one.    

[GTX]

Hi folks,

That second one looks like the result of a mating between a F-104 and a Bristol 188:




Regards,

Greg