F-105 Thunderchief

[MCS]

I'm not sure of the feasibility due to two things: timing and loss of fuel/range.

IIRC, the Pave Tack was developed in the late 70's and the last of the -105's were retired in the early 80's. Not much time in between to possibly justify the integration of a new system on an aging platform.

I think the bigger issue though would be loss of fuel capacity and therefore loss of range. Even with some kind of semi-recessed configuration, you'd most likely have to lose the internal bay tank.

From photos, I've seen of the external centerline tank, it may interfere with the turret and would have to go as well. Depending on the capacity of the outboard pylons, you may be able to still carry tanks on the inboard pylons.

An alternative would be to backdate it a bit and use a Pave Knife on the centerline rack. Team them up with Weasels: -105G's take out the protection in the area and the Knife equipped -105F's take out the target w/the LGB's.

[Maverick]

I guess one could even consider Pave Spike instead of Pave Knife, as it's a much slimmer system, hence less drag.  It could even being hung of an outboard pylon I'd think.

[MCS]

I guess one could even consider Pave Spike instead of Pave Knife, as it's a much slimmer system, hence less drag.  It could even being hung of an outboard pylon I'd think.

Yeah, a Pave Spike would fit the timeframe that the -105 was serving and I think you're spot on as far as installing it on the outboard pylon.  

[Scooterman]

Just stirring the pot, but I like the Pave Knife idea.  Spike is daylight only and IIRC Knife was day/night.  I think it didn't catch on because of it's large size.  But that would look KILLER under the belly or under a wing of a Thud.

[SinUnNombre]

Let's take this very interesting idea even one more step further. Could the Pave Spike be semi-/recessed into the internal weapons bay?

Jon

[Archangel]

If the Pave Spike wouldn't work as originally psoted here would mounting it or the Pave Knife pod on a centerline pylon work? If I am not mistaken the centerline fuel tank that was mounted on the belly  on an F-105 wasn't excatlly small compared to either the Pave systems and that would still allow for the internal tank.

http://hsfeatures.com/features04/images/F-...-105G_HA-00.jpg

http://www.starduststudios.com/Wild%20Weasel%20p.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/7002/ww266.jpg

[dragon]

.....Of course, all these "reality checks" are tied to the F-105 in US service (hint, HINT, wink wink, nudge nudge).  Now if your proposal was for an oil rich nation in the same time period....Just a thought. B)  

[Radish]

And remember, the F-105 production was extended by another 1000 airframes  

[GTX]

.....Of course, all these "reality checks" are tied to the F-105 in US service (hint, HINT, wink wink, nudge nudge)

Not necessarily - I have someone else in mind - I'll post the backstory shortly.

Regards,

Greg

[elmayerle]

And all this assumes, of course, that the F-105 stayed with the same engine.  An afterburning turbofan with the same or greater thrust would make a big difference in how much fuel you needed to carry.  For that matter, an improved J75 or, for RCAF usage, Iroquois, would also help that way, just not as much.  I'm not sure how an RM8 compares dimensionally or airflow requirement-wise with a J75, but it's got the right thrust ratings.  Of course, P&W could "punt" and develop an afterburning, supersonic version of the TF33.

[Archibald]

And all this assumes, of course, that the F-105 stayed with the same engine.  An afterburning turbofan with the same or greater thrust would make a big difference in how much fuel you needed to carry.  For that matter, an improved J75 or, for RCAF usage, Iroquois, would also help that way, just not as much.  I'm not sure how an RM8 compares dimensionally or airflow requirement-wise with a J75, but it's got the right thrust ratings.  Of course, P&W could "punt" and develop an afterburning, supersonic version of the TF33.

RB-142 or Olympus would be cool, too. BTW a swedish Thud with RM-8 could be a fallback option in the case of an A-36 failure    

[Scooterman]

Am I right in thinking the Thud had both the probe and drogue and flying boom AAR systems?  

Yep, she was bi.
 

[Jeffry Fontaine]

If you're going RAF, how about a buldged weapons bay option like they put on Buccs?

Load her out with Sea Eagles and put her in 12 or 208 markings and do some fishing in the Baltic.

The blister effect on the weapons bay might be possible if it were added in place of the existing weapons bay doors, something like that would be good for a reconnaissance package since you would have a spot for a forward facing low oblique camera as well as some side viewing cameras and enough room for a SLAR package.  

[icchan]

Hell, the Thuds were around in ANG units here in the States until the mid 1980s.  What if they'd been sold off, maybe as an F-111/TSR-2 replacement (fictional histories and all) and outfitted for the strike role that way?

The thought of a navalized Thud with 4 early Harpoons on the wings (say maybe in 1980) and a modded radar for antiship work just amuses me to no end.  Tack on RAF markings for that year and you have Very Bad News for Red Banner Northern Fleet.

Hell, considering the size of the Thud's wings, I wonder how an F-105 with a TSR-2's wings might look.  She'd be fast...

[upnorth]

Seems the issue of the Thud's excesive drinking problem always comes up when talking about it.

Re-engining is one way around it, but how about a complete re-winging? Look what the F-16XL did for range enhancements and internal fuel carriage abilities of the F-16.

Give the Thud a big set of delta wings. If you designed them along the same lines as the Saab Draken's, you wouldn't really have to modify the intakes at all and I dont think any major changes would be required to the Thud's main landing gear configuration, except maybe bulking the legs up a bit to take the extra weight.

Transfer the fuel load to the wings and free up the weapons bay so it could be used as planned, give her a less thirsty engine and you'd probably only need auxiliary fuel tanks for long range ferry flights.

At the same time, give it full span flaps and leadng edge slats to improve take off and landing distance.

Just make sure to give it cranked delta wings instead of normal ones. No practical purpose, but cranked ones look so much cooler.