Trident II and SO-4060 Cyclone

[Archibald]

Hmm I'll atempt tomorrow it seems to be a very, very long process and it's already 11 o'clock in the evening here...    

[NARSES2]

Really interesting models and plans there Archie - thanks

[Archibald]

Hmmm we know that Breguet worked with GB on the Br.121 / Jag program. Whatif some of the projects mentionned here also had become cooperative programs in the same way ?
Just for the fun...

Br.1110 Apterion is quite similar to the Harrier...alternate scenario could be that after the failure of the Mirage IIIV, Breguet licence-build the jump Jet (as MDD did in the USA... french upgrade for the Harrier with Mirage stuff)

The 1120 could have been the standard fighter for both the RN and Aeronavale (replacing Sea Vixens and French sea venoms... no crusaders, no phantoms)

Br.1180 was quite similar to the TSR-2  

Br.1200 (and its VG siblings, the 1220 series) could have been interesting as a 2nd generation naval fighters in the mid-60's.

And the 1260 trainer could have been the basis of a tri-service trainer (merging Hawk and Alpha Jet)

IMHO of course!!!  

[TsrJoe]

hiyas, dyu have a drawing of the 'Tsr like' Br.1180? if it was a tactical bomber type id love to see it? cheers, Joe


ps...just thinking wasnt the 1180 the Atlantique???

[Archibald]

Breguet Atlantique was the Br.1150... but you're not so far from the truth... there had been a nuclear bomber variant of the Atlantic which was numbered... Br.1190! (pic is included in the pages showed here)

I guess its the mention of the name "TSR-2" that is behind your request    

Here's the two pages of the book dedicated to the project...



In fact the link to the TSR-2 is weak, but exist!
We know that the Jaguar was nicknamed "the baby TSR-2"

This project (Br.1180) is close from the Br.1210 ( Aka Br.121, ancestor of the Jaguar! ).
Both were drawn at the same era (cearly 60's) by the same design bureau...

[Archibald]

Br.1180

Length : 33m
Span : 19m
Wing area : 110 m2
Empty weight : 25 tons
MTOW : 60 tons

Powerplant : two Bristol siddeley 593/3  
Power : 19200 kgp each

Ceiling 60 000ft+
top speed : mach2+
range : 4000km +
crew : 3

Armement : Matra-600 balistic missile (a french skybolt ? )

Era in which this study was made is very unclear.
Mirage IVB program ranned from March to September 1959 only. But it is indicated in the text that this plane was drawn in paralel with the 121... which is a proposal from 1963!

Even more weird  : look at the powerplant... its Concorde engines (-593 no ?) with more power! But the SST engine (derivative of the TSR-2 powerplant, wich had teething problem and was not ready until 1963 or so, destroying its testbed on the ground!) was not ready until 1966 or so (IMHO).

Other thing ; its forerunner, the TALP program (Br.1170) date back from 1960 or so...
Dates do not correspond with the Mirage IVB program...

That's strange...  

[Archibald]

Here's another project I love : the Matra R-130. Before Lagardere, and AAMs, the firm worked on aircrafts (from 1935 to 1950).
This one was part of the big reasearch program on ramjet aircrafts (which included Leduc 010, 021 and 022, and Griffon). It never left the drawing board... but this is a daring project, and a sexy aircraft...

Matra R-130 (from Le Fana de l'Aviation 2003)