M3 Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles

[Joe C-P]

So I was taking apart a Grant I built as a young teen, to rebuild it with the advantages of the many many maaaaany years of experience since. And I'm looking at it with the turret off the hull, and I realized that the Grant turret really doesn't fit the hull, appearance-wise. There's the hull, all flats and angles and rivets, and then there's that round turret, almost no rivets, no angles. And the Lee? Also a curved turret.

So I'm looking up at my other old kits, and my eyes espy my teen-aged model of one of these:



Angles? check. Flats? check. Rivets? Oh yeah!

(Now I have to decide what to do with the Crusader hull and Grant turret. Maybe they'll go together, but there's other kits, too.)

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Hauke Ahrendt has put together a really nice looking 1/35th scale model of the M74 Tank Recovery Vehicle based on the Perfect Scale kit for your viewing pleasure on modellversium.de.   

(image source: Hauke Ahrendt/modellversium.de)

[General Zod]

Here is an M4 SF model from Track Link site

http://www.track-link.net/gallery/6870

[Weaver]

(Now I have to decide what to do with the Crusader hull and Grant turret. Maybe they'll go together, but there's other kits, too.)

Re the Crusader hull, why not turn it into a proper WWII APC? Put the drive sprocket at the front, jack up the hull top moulding with some spacers to give more roof height, relocate the engine to the middle and add a new rear roof and doors. If it has the original front MG turret, so much the better, and/or add a Humber or Vickers Light Tank turret over the rear compartment. It wouldn't be perfect (driver & gunner isolated from crew compartment) but then that would be credible for the period. Anyway, there IS a precedent for mid-engined APCs: the Japanese Type 60 and Type 74 both have this configuration, with THREE guys in front of the engine and a gunner alongside it, standing in an access tunnel.

How about putting the Grant turret on an early cast-type (rounded corners) Sherman hull and concocting a story about it being an early test vehicle from before the proper turret was ready?

[philp]

Here is an M4 SF model from Track Link site

http://www.track-link.net/gallery/6870

I really liked that one when I saw it.

[Joe C-P]

(Now I have to decide what to do with the Crusader hull and Grant turret. Maybe they'll go together, but there's other kits, too.)

How about putting the Grant turret on an early cast-type (rounded corners) Sherman hull and concocting a story about it being an early test vehicle from before the proper turret was ready?

I'll follow up the Crusader in its own thread.
I do like the idea of the Grant turret on the Sherman hull. I think it'll need a bit of upgunning, maybe an extra coaxial machine gun?

[Weaver]

(Now I have to decide what to do with the Crusader hull and Grant turret. Maybe they'll go together, but there's other kits, too.)

How about putting the Grant turret on an early cast-type (rounded corners) Sherman hull and concocting a story about it being an early test vehicle from before the proper turret was ready?

I'll follow up the Crusader in its own thread.

Done it for you:
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,26309.new.html#new

I do like the idea of the Grant turret on the Sherman hull. I think it'll need a bit of upgunning, maybe an extra coaxial machine gun?

Well I was only thinking of it as a test lash-up to fool the JMNs. As a service vehicle then yes, it'd definately need a co-ax. I wonder if a 6 pdr would fit?

[Joe C-P]

I actually have two early Shermans, but maybe not all the parts. One is a Calliope model, short the rocket block.
One will now have the Grant turret as a JMN-tweaker, the other will sit until I am inspired.

We'll see what people have to say about the Crusader in its thread.

[dy031101]

Both the Canadian Ram and the Australian Sentinel are based on M3 Medium...... for components inherited (even in modified forms) from the M3, did they take surplus stocks of parts already produced or did they (Canada and Australia) still fabricate those parts?

[rickshaw]

Both the Canadian Ram and the Australian Sentinel are based on M3 Medium...... for components inherited (even in modified forms) from the M3, did they take surplus stocks of parts already produced or did they (Canada and Australia) still fabricate those parts?

For Australia - they were all imported.  I am unaware of any local manufacture of even minor items.  Interestingly, by the end of the war, most of the Australian M3 Grant/Lees had, had their M3 suspension replaced with M4 units - the M4 units were more readily available. 

As an aside, I wonder, would it have been possible to produce an M3 with HVSS?

[dy031101]

I'm not familiar with the exact capacity of a suspension system, so I'm wondering...... can the suspensions of the M3 and M4 be used to support a bigger chassis (albeit with adjusted overall scheme, for example four suspension arms rather than three on each side)?

[apophenia]

Both the Canadian Ram and the Australian Sentinel are based on M3 Medium...... for components inherited (even in modified forms) from the M3, did they take surplus stocks of parts already produced or did they (Canada and Australia) still fabricate those parts?

The Rams had some major drive components imported from the US, most of the castings were done in Canada.

http://www.ramtank.ca/ramhist1.htm

"The British had already made heavy commitments for this tank from American production sources, by way of orders placed in the United States by the British Purchasing Commission. The tank at that time was known as the M3 (Anglo-American) Cruiser Tank, and was in its pilot stage. This type was also selected due to the availability of heavy components, notably the engine and transmission, in the United States."

[jcf]

I'm not familiar with the exact capacity of a suspension system, so I'm wondering...... can the suspensions of the M3 and M4 be used to support a bigger chassis (albeit with adjusted overall scheme, for example four suspension arms rather than three on each side)?

That's basically the layout of the M6 Heavy Tank, four Horizontal Volute Spring Assemblies per side.
http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/pics/heavytankm6.html

[dy031101]

That's basically the layout of the M6 Heavy Tank, four Horizontal Volute Spring Assemblies per side.

What I have in mind for the DIY heavy tank is "to import surplus M3 or M4 parts and use them" rather than "to fabricate a scaled-up vertical or horizontal volute spring assemblies".

I don't know which case M6 heavy tank belongs to...... but judging from what you posted, I'd still take it that using M3/M4 suspension components for a larger chassis is still workable?

[Sauragnmon]

If I recall, the T-10 Superheavy also used Sherman Suspensions to support it, but I could just be off on that - I haven't slept well for bloody three nights.  Just my thoughts on it.