M3 Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles

[Jschmus]

This isn't my normal field of study, but I was convinced there must be something online that would push the argument one way or another.  I first went to Wikipedia, hoping that whatever was there would be properly sourced.

The article on the M4 Sherman has a section entitled "Doctrine".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Sherman#Doctrine

I was sure I could find the 1941 Fm 100-5 Field Service Regulations, and sure enough, it's online:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24578612/Fm-100-5-Field-Service-Regulations-Operations-1941

The Fm 17.33 Tank Battalion document is also online, at several locations, in PDF format:
http://www.cgsc.edu/carl/docrepository/FM17_33_1942.pdf

It seems that the Sherman was intended to fight other tanks, though initially that wasn't its primary purpose.

[dy031101]

It would appear that my previous claim on how the ROCA M10 modification looks like is incorrect......

These are how the modded TDs look like:







Higher roof, shorter 105mm gun barrel, and yup, a bow machinegun port.  Dunno the elevation of the main gun though!

Would anyone want to venture a guess on the type of howitzer being used?

[raafif]

neat !!    another weird real-world botchy for my model-shelves    

What gun did they use ?

[dy031101]

What gun did they use ?

10cm/105(?)mm howitzer left behind by the Japanese.

Sources did not specify the exact designation.

[rickshaw]

I don't think they are tank-destroyers, armed with a Howitzer.  I rather suspect they are being used as SP Artillery.

[raafif]

agree -- SP Arty sounds much more plausible but .... looks like the top pic has a kill-marking on the barrel ??!! 

[dy031101]

I used "TD" only as a reference of its origin.  It's probably closer to an assault howitzer in terms of what it should be seen as.

That being said, the best communist tanks at that time are captured Shinhoto Chi-Ha......

In any event, a quick look at the Wikipedia on WWII Japanese artillery does make me think that the visible part of the gun looks like Type 91 10cm Howitzer.

[dy031101]

What other oddballs ? maybe a Priest refitted with captured 88mm ?

Or salvaged 90mm AA gun? 

[wandering enginner]

My 1st posting, so please bear with me.

It is my understanding that the first encounter with the Pz VI  Tiger was on the Lenigrad Front in late 1942/early 1943.  The Western Allies first encounter was in the closing days of the North africa campaign.  The PZ V made its debut on the EAstern front at the Battle of Kursk and against the Americans at Anzio.  I do not know what if any reports/details came out of intelligence/spying efforts. 

When the M4 first made its appearance in North Africa it was as good as anything else in mass production.  The M10 with its 3 in gun was also equal to the task.  It is my understanding that by 1943 the need for a larger AT gun was needed for the tank destroyer force (flawed concept I know).  This of course became the M36.

My proposal is for a "Jumbo" M36 along the lines of the "Jumbo" M4A3 sherman.  Up armor the well sloped chassis of the M10/M36 to the same level and design a heavy cast turret to suit. I have been working on this project for a while now and will post pics when finished.

[rickshaw]

My 1st posting, so please bear with me.

It is my understanding that the first encounter with the Pz VI  Tiger was on the Lenigrad Front in late 1942/early 1943.  The Western Allies first encounter was in the closing days of the North africa campaign.  The PZ V made its debut on the EAstern front at the Battle of Kursk and against the Americans at Anzio.  I do not know what if any reports/details came out of intelligence/spying efforts. 

The Tiger I was first encountered by the British in Tunisia (where it didn't do very well at all, being knocked out by a 6 Pdr).  The Panther was first encountered by the British and Americans at Salerno in Southern Italy.

The best account of what the British knew and when, about the Tiger I is in David Fletcher's book, "Tiger!  A British View".  In that he details the first awareness from intelligence reports, the first encounters in battle and so on.  Well worth reading.

When the M4 first made its appearance in North Africa it was as good as anything else in mass production.  The M10 with its 3 in gun was also equal to the task.  It is my understanding that by 1943 the need for a larger AT gun was needed for the tank destroyer force (flawed concept I know).  This of course became the M36.

My proposal is for a "Jumbo" M36 along the lines of the "Jumbo" M4A3 sherman.  Up armor the well sloped chassis of the M10/M36 to the same level and design a heavy cast turret to suit. I have been working on this project for a while now and will post pics when finished.

The M36's suspension and engine would need to be substantially beefed up.  One thing you might be interested in is that the M4 and the M36 shared the same turret ring size, which is why the M36B2 (I think that is the designation) used a straight M4 hull, rather than the specialised M36 one, albeit with a M36 turret.   IIRC there was a Jumbo fitted with a 76mm gun, as well.   I'd think therefore a Jumbo turret with some substantial re-arrangement might be able to accommodate a 90mm gun.

[Zaskar24]

I was thinking along the lines of going with the proven and already fitted to a Sherman's turret 17 pounder.  Or since the M4's and M26's turret rings were the same diameter, I believe, you could just drop the turret from an M26 onto an M4A3E2 "Jumbo" hull.  Maybe even look at putting in a more powerful motor with the existing and proven drive train.  Possibly the Meteor engine from the Cromwell, Comet, etc. tanks?  I figure the 100 horsepower or so upgrade from the Ford GAA engine would give a nice boost to speed at the expense of combat radius though. 

[Zaskar24]

Actually they did put a pershing turret on the M4 hull.  It was also proposed to do this to get a 90mm gun tank into theater.  There was not enought turrets to do this and the M26.  So nothing came of it.

The picture of the M4 hull with an M26 turret was posted earlier in this thread in response to a question I asked in regards to upgunning the Sherman.  Since this is whifland who is to say that in theatre an "Jumbo" Sherman was in need of a turret and there was an M26 turret looking for a hull in the same maintenance depot?  Especially going into 1946 as a means of stopping the E series German tanks.  Even better, a turret from the "Super" Pershing with the longer barreled 90mm with a decent supply of HVAP ammo.

[wandering enginner]

Can someone tell me how to post an image from my desk top.  I would like to post an image of my M7 General Thomas, a up armored M36/M10 chassis with HVSS and cast turret mounting a 90 mm gun.  Any and all help is appreciated.

[NARSES2]

Can someone tell me how to post an image from my desk top.  I would like to post an image of my M7 General Thomas, a up armored M36/M10 chassis with HVSS and cast turret mounting a 90 mm gun.  Any and all help is appreciated.

Hi and wellcome

Hopefully this will help ?

Chris

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,32096.0.html

[wandering enginner]

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