The Falklands And The Task Force

[TsrJoe]

it has ben noted in a few sources that there was a Vulcan at Ascencion Island kept under 24hr guard and interestingly not used on the 'Black Buck' missions, rumours persisting that WE177's were also sent for storage to the island base too!

 

[Geoff]

I would have thought the loss of a carrier would mean that if we could not persuade/bribe Chile into letting us use overtly, or covertly, their airbases then a well placed WE - 177  might have had a role to play in solving the long range Argentine airpower problem.

As for the Argentine first use senario well then it's big boys rules and a hell of a lot of collateral damage will ensue.

[Lawman]

Assuming an actual nuclear strike itself would be off the cards, then one possibility might be the detonation of a nuclear depth bomb near Puerto Belgrano. An underwater detonation would cause a lot of damage, but no major loss of life (probably a sizeable tidal wave, but not much more). It can be made clear that the next target would not be underwater, thus the Junta should change its mind very quickly.

On the other hand, as already mentioned, it is likely that the US would have intervened on the UK's side rather than see the UK dropping nukes. A really interesting option might have been the US making Midway and Coral Sea available 'for lease pending delivery of new carriers' - i.e. the UK agrees to buy a pair of mini-Nimitz class carriers (c.65-70,000 tons), and uses Midway and Coral Sea in the interim. Since this gives the UK two big carriers, the UK completes the Invincibles, but sells one to Australia (as was planned, but cancelled due to the war). The remaining UK Invincibles are then converted to commando carriers.

I seem to remember reading a nice piece which basically stated that the UK could afford to lose the Invincible, and keep on the war, but lose Hermes, and it was all over! If Invincible goes down, you might see the UK try to bring Bulwark back, and Illustrious would be available, so you end up with Hermes, Bulwark and Illustrious, and perhaps some converted containerships. Taking the whatif even further, the UK might be able to borrow HMAS Melbourne as well!

[Excalibur]

I seem to remember reading a nice piece which basically stated that the UK could afford to lose the Invincible, and keep on the war, but lose Hermes, and it was all over! If Invincible goes down, you might see the UK try to bring Bulwark back, and Illustrious would be available, so you end up with Hermes, Bulwark and Illustrious, and perhaps some converted containerships. Taking the whatif even further, the UK might be able to borrow HMAS Melbourne as well!

I remember reading something about the Brits requesting Austtralian support in the way of HMAS Melbourne. Which in itself would make for an interesting WhatIf build.. Aussie A-4's flying close air support missions & Trackers flying recon...  

[Archibald]

Wow! A Coalition against Argentina... GB + Chile+ Australia... who's next ? Seems that  imagination of members  has no limits concerning the Falkalnd war !!!    

[Excalibur]

Here's an interesting article on the carrier aspect of teh Falklands war My Webpage

[B777LR]

Hey, wasnt the US offering to loan the nimitz or enterprize to the british, so they could bring along their F-4s? When the invincible was crippled and limped home, the royal navy agreed on loaning the USS Nimitz, and go attack the falklands under support from F-4Ks

What if argentina had bought a clemenceau class carrier in the 1970`s?

[XV107]

It is on record from Admirals Leech and Woodward (and John Nott) that the US offered a CV to the RN (apparently not, as Cordesman and Wagner claimed the Guam but something rather bigger. Although Nigel West says Eisenhower, my understanding (from having heard Leech, Woodward and Nott comment on it) is that it wasn't a CVN.

The offer was turned down because finding the personnel and then training them on the US propulsion system (high pressure steam versus whatever the RN were using, IIRC) would have taken too much time. Also, the aircraft and aircrew would have had to have come from the RAF and to have done carrier qualification before deploying. It seemed that this would take far too much time - assuming that the personnel could have been found in the first place.

[Lawman]

There is always the 'exchange program' option, i.e. 6000 USN personnel 'go on exchange with the RN' for the duration of the conflict... As for the aircraft, the F-4J would be the logical choice (supported, fully carrier capable etc...). An airwing of 50 Phantoms and 25 Buccaneers (if still carrier capable, otherwise the Intruder) would be a good option, supplemented by some Hawkeyes and Sea Kings.

[Archangel]

I seem to remember reading a nice piece which basically stated that the UK could afford to lose the Invincible, and keep on the war, but lose Hermes, and it was all over! If Invincible goes down, you might see the UK try to bring Bulwark back, and Illustrious would be available, so you end up with Hermes, Bulwark and Illustrious, and perhaps some converted containerships. Taking the whatif even further, the UK might be able to borrow HMAS Melbourne as well!

I remember reading something about the Brits requesting Austtralian support in the way of HMAS Melbourne. Which in itself would make for an interesting WhatIf build.. Aussie A-4's flying close air support missions & Trackers flying recon...

Hmmm Aussie A-4s taking on Argentinas A-4's. There could have been alot of nasty friendly fire incidents.

[Archangel]

I doubt Congress would be happy with 6,000 US personnel being sent into a war zone that wasn't the responsibility of the US.

Congress hasn't been happy to do that since WWII.

[Archibald]

Hey, wasnt the US offering to loan the nimitz or enterprize to the british, so they could bring along their F-4s? When the invincible was crippled and limped home, the royal navy agreed on loaning the USS Nimitz, and go attack the falklands under support from F-4Ks

What if argentina had bought a clemenceau class carrier in the 1970`s?

Clemenceau class carrier were considered for the CVA-01 program - bu they were too little... even the CdG would have been too little    
That's a cool whatif: a third Clemenceau for France and two more for GB  
Alas, Buccanneers and Phantoms could not operate from a CLemenceau carrier (too heavy for the catapults).

Whatif France  helped GB, sending the Foch or the Clemenceau ? The Crusaders were already old at the time, but the Super Etendards had just entered service...
This could a good pretext to scrap the Crusaders and replace it by a batch of second-hand Hornets... Shut up, Mr Dassault!

[Excalibur]

I seem to remember reading a nice piece which basically stated that the UK could afford to lose the Invincible, and keep on the war, but lose Hermes, and it was all over! If Invincible goes down, you might see the UK try to bring Bulwark back, and Illustrious would be available, so you end up with Hermes, Bulwark and Illustrious, and perhaps some converted containerships. Taking the whatif even further, the UK might be able to borrow HMAS Melbourne as well!

I remember reading something about the Brits requesting Austtralian support in the way of HMAS Melbourne. Which in itself would make for an interesting WhatIf build.. Aussie A-4's flying close air support missions & Trackers flying recon...

Hmmm Aussie A-4s taking on Argentinas A-4's. There could have been alot of nasty friendly fire incidents.

Which is why we paint the Aussie A-4's in a unique colour scheme...If the British were to "borrow" a carrier it would be likely a commonwealth one than an American one....I think it would be an interesting scenario with HMAS Melbourne in the mix....

[B777LR]

Whatif France  helped GB, sending the Foch or the Clemenceau ? The Crusaders were already old at the time, but the Super Etendards had just entered service...
This could a good pretext to scrap the Crusaders and replace it by a batch of second-hand Hornets... Shut up, Mr Dassault!

Etendards slugging it out with more etendards?

What-if argentina had operated F-8 Crusaders, A-6 Intruders and A-7 Corsair, bought along with the A-4s? And if the UK had loaned the USS Forrestal/Ranger, and bought their own F-4K and Bucaneers?  

[Archibald]

Whatif Argentina had Mirage F1 and A-7s ? these planes were a generation ahead of their Skyhawks and Mirage IIIE... and Mirage F1s could also have taken the antiship role of the Super Etendards (the Iraqis did it!).

The Mirage F1C had 25 % more range than the Mirage IIIE, performed much better in dogfight... but its weapon system at the time was more or less the same (Cyrano + R-530). The improved Super 530D/F AAM entered service within the AdA in 1980 or so.

Whatif Argentina had bought some F1E (= M53). With this improved engine, range was better. The extra power of the M53 could have een very useful to carry two excocet, a huge 2200 l drop tanks, magics and ECM pods (again, the raqis did that... ith the Atar!)

Well that's my plan for the Falkland GB   ...