Dilema

[Madoc]

Kiss me and I'll have yer balls 

Shas B)

This, coming from a guy who's avatar is a dog?



Madoc

[Shasper]

Whoops! Didnt think before I typed  

Shas B)

[cthulhu77]

This, coming from a guy who's avatar is a dog?



Madoc

Be sure to pet him first.

[Brian da Basher]

I've got to echo the comments of Mr Miller and Greg. I agree that every What-If build has its own degree of artistry. Even imagining the concepts in the first place raises them up a level. Personally I think a "Dragon's Den" would a complete waste of precious bandwidth resources, not to mention the totally destructive effect it would have on the board as a whole. There are plenty of other places on the 'net for negativity. What makes What-If special is the positive encouragement folks receive here.

Brian da Basher

[AeroplaneDriver]

I agree completely that the last thing we need is a 'Dragon's Den' forum.  No matter how it's intended, a free for all slag-off will do nothing but foster negativity.  There are already plenty of sites for that kind of thing.  To be honest I dont understand how the "It's my model so f-off!" philosophy is compatible with a desire to slag off the work of others...

[Eddie M.]

By the way, I hope everyone understands my idea for the extreme Dragon's Den was said tongue firmly in cheek..... I think it comes down to 2 simple ideas.

1. If you want help and tips, ask for it.

2.If you want to contribute to some else's build, do it nice.

Very simple.
  Eddie  

[Shasper]

No matter how it's intended, a free for all slag-off will do nothing but foster negativity.

Not to mention thats how we got hacked by all those morons & all these PC rules in the 1st place.

Shas B)

[anthonyp]

PC rules?  Hardly!  It's called respecting one another and taking personal responsibility for what one posts.  It's one of those "Re-read and think before you hit the submit button" rules that should be common sense, but we have it spelled out because people need reminders when they're on the "anonymous" internet about rules of decent conduct.

A "Dragon's Den" is not something I had in mind when I suggested a "Free-Fire" critique forum, as that could turn into something really nasty, with anything but constructive criticism being offered.

Some posters have stated they don't want anything changed on the forum.  Attitude wise, I agree;  This place fosters creativity and imagination.

Organizationally, I agree with those that suggest the "Hints and Techniques" (or whatever it's actual name is) be moved up towards the top of the forum's list, in order to give it a more prominent position and be viewed more.

[cthulhu77]

I don't know (obviously)...the first place I check here is the "build" category...and some kits don't strike my fancy, and some do. If I see someone making the same mistakes I have made before, I pm over a response with some advice, much like the master modelers here have done for me when I have made some glaring error...and yep, it is always in the best of interests, and the concern for growth.  Because of this sort of attention, my modeling efforts have begun to get better, and I am a firm believer in trying to help others out as well.  We are WhatIfer's at heart, and need to stick together...helping each other out is the best solution to making sure this board continues to rock and roll all night long !

            Sweet Susie!

                     Greg

[Geoff_B]

Archie

Many of the UK lot actually meet up at various model shows making this much more than a virtual community. Overkiller joined the site and i noticed he was from the same town as me so invited him to our local model club, thus when it was our club show a couple of weeks ago he was actively involved with the show plus had the chance to meet the SIG in person (and be corrupted by the warped brain storming of Rad and Dork in person - the fact he's still here is surely a good sign !!! )

G

[Geoff_B]

All

Interesting observations guys and pretty much the broad spectrum i expected but it also highlights the issue even more !!!.

You all actively debated the pro's and cons of the issue in a pretty mature and structured way BUT when it comes to a post on a model we suddenly turn into a bunch of 'happy clappers' who reward every effort with praise only. The very concept that one may dare to critique has become so politically incorrect that nobody is doing it anymore for fear of being hounded off the board.

We are using the forum for inspiration yet advice of the actual modelling side is limited , i would have thought we were at least mature enough to offer praise when due, respect when earned and constructive advice where nesseassary.

Obviously any stuctured assignation of a somebodys build would still be inappropriate where and whenever its done as that the mandate of the JMN trying to show his elitism with no respect shown to the modeller or his efforts, which is the key aspect for this forum.

The PM side of the argument has its pro's & cons, the model poster could receive 20 or more helpful hints form various members in response to his build which may be somewhat off putting to recieve after the first 5 or 6, yet other novices or even regulars would not see the benefit of the wisdom being offered and only see praise thus leading them to assume that the methods used are fine !!!

Oh and STOP hijacking threads!!!!! by going off on tangents - it only serves to distract the argument and disrupt the flow

G

[Rory]

I have been banned from a certain model forum (because of my own stupidity I hasten to add BUT i wasn't offered the chance to make an apology  or explain my actions) and I actually had to ask if it was ok to offer constructive criticisms about other peoples build.

The few phots of my stuff I have posted on here I have always asked for, and I expect to get, positive criticisms

[nev]

The thing that strikes me about having a critique forum is this - how many would post in there?

Would it be just the uber-modelers looking for that extra 0.1% improvement?  Would the mid-lower range of modelers, those of us who need to improve the most, would we post in there?  

Because reading a lot of the posts in this thread, there are quite a few responses which say basically "yes I know my paint job sucks, and there are horrible gaps I haven't bothered to fill, but I had fun doing it anyway"

[NARSES2]

I've thought long and hard about this and even drafted my notes in long hand first ! So here goes.

I know what Geoff means and I can see his point but putting it in practice could lead to some possible problems ?

Personally I comment on what I consider to be outstanding builds/finishes regardless of wether or not the aircraft type/period interests me or not. This are the quality of builds I aspire to, even if I know I won't get there.

I will also comment where a project interests me or indeed just "tickles my fancy". Note a lack of comment is not a crtic on my part it's just that the vast majority of the models produced on this site do not fit into my own particular type/era/scenario band.

A possible problem with constructive critism (and political comment) is that by nature the Board is "virtual" and as such you cannot sometimes "see" the true intended meaning of the words used, and thats without possible language problems (we get those with English and "American" fgs) - what happens is that "backs go up".

Constructive critic only works on a personal basis - if you have a personal relationship with some one on the Board then you can deal with it - if not you will find it difficult to do so.For instance if any of the UK lads were to tell me that I need to practice my masking, I would take it as constructive remark, BUT if I don't know the person then a part of me would be thinking "what does he really mean" - it's wrong but it's human nature.

I firmly believe that a huge personal strength and asset is the ability to know your own weaknesses - unfortunately we don't like being told what they are. Normally after some reflection we will realise that the person was telling the truth, but not instantly and "Boards" by their very nature get instant responces.

No solution I know but I just think it's dangerous ground to walk over.

By all means point out a weakness in your own finished kit and ask for advice, but we don't know each other well enough to go as far as offering anything other then that IMHO. So I'm with Nev - if I can find a fault I will keep it to myself on the baisis of "let he who would throw stones"

Chris

[Sentinel Chicken]

Suppose for discussion's sake you added a poll to your pics if you wanted criticism? That way everyone can have their say anonymously if they wish, and if they want to say more, then they can reply in the thread.

You'd have to come up with a scale of sorts that's constructive, though. Not a 1-5 scale or an A-B-C-D, but something that no matter the choice, the person who put the poll to invite opinions could at least get some benefit from the experience.

Just an idea. I do see where Geoff is coming from, though. The hard part is that we are all at different levels of skill it would be like putting a bunch of kids of different ages together and expecting them to pass the same exam.