F-85 Goblin

[Mossie]

Definately Blackstar Archie.  It was reported in Aviation Week about a year ago, about a 2 stage to orbit system comprising of a launcher based on the XB-70 Valkyrie & an orbiter similar to Dyna-Soar.  A lot of it was speculation & it's added more fuel to the Aurora rumours, some think this is one & the same.  I think most experts are of the opinion it's all a load of rubbish, but who knows?

More on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstar_(spaceplane)

Brilliant Buzzard may be the same programme or may refer to the launcher itself.  I snapped a model at Scalemodel world which I now realise was the modellers take on Brilliant Buzzard:



If you do a Google search for Blackstar Spaceplane (just blackstar brings all sorts of stuff) or Brilliant Buzzard, you'll find plenty of stuff.

[Archibald]

Ah yes, I remember this one. You're right, all the fuss was one year ago.
Well, I was not far from the thing (it was a Black - something ).

I heard of Brilliant buzzard for 15 years now. Seems that Aurora mothership, Brilliant buzzard, Italeri SR-75 and Blackstar 1st stage are all  linked to the same aircraft. If it existed one day of course...  
Second stage could be
- a mach-6 aircraft (aurora)
- an orbital spaceplane
- an expandable upper stage.

Someone said that the forward part of this aircraft was loaded on a C-5A in 1992, there was also the 747 sight of August 1992...

Nice Brilliant Buzzard anyways      
I like the Bird of prey, too...    

[Madoc]

Folks,

The Goblin was considered very iffy even when it was first proposed by the Army Air Force back in the late days of WWII.  McDonnell got the contract to pursue the specification with the understanding that it would also get a contract to develop a conventional jet fighter for the Army as well.  This, because the AAF recognized the high probability that their parasite fighter effort would come to naught.

The thing which ultimately killed the Goblin program was its engine.  The Westinghouse J34-WE-7 turbojet lacked discrete enough throttle control such that the Goblin pilot could adjust its thrust in a controlable fashion as he made his approach to the carrier trapeze.  Too fast or too slow and always very difficult.

Now, if you "WhIf" this one such that the J34 _did_ have the desired throttle response then you've got a pretty nifty weapon system as of 1948 or so.

Yes, In Flight Refueling solved much of the "escort fighter" dilema.  However, the speeds and distances involved meant missions that could be day long or more so.  Bomber crews could deal with this better because their craft allowed the crews to "move about within the cabin."  The B-36, as I recall, even had a pretty swanky oven / stove set up as a factory installed item.  Being stuck in a fighter's cockpit for more than but a few hours could get mighty fatiguing.  The USAAF in the Pacific encountered this with the P-51's that flew escort for the B-29 missions.  Those pilots would be on those missions for half a day or so and many pilots were so worn out by flight's end that they had to be lifted out of the plane's cockpit.

Pulling escort for B-36 missions would've involved even longer flights.  Thus the ability to reduce fighter pilot fatigue by not forcing the fighter pilot to remain in the cramped fighter cockpit would be a good thing.  Thus, a viable parasite escort fighter could still be useful even in an era of IFR.

Over on the Secret Projects site, Scott Lowther has been posting scans of massive nuclear powered bombers and the like.  Some of them included a number of parasite fighters that would attach to the plane's wings.  In Scott's Bomber book preview he listed the Lockheed CL-292-6 which spec'd out at least two modified F-104's were to be carried on large underwing pylons.  The pylons were to be thick enough to allow the fighter's pilots to remain aboard the CL-292-6 until needed.  They would then move through access tubes in the wings and then down into the pylon and 104's cockpit.

So, even well into the IFR age, parasite fighter's were seen as having a valid role.

Thus, solve the throttle problems on the F-85 and you might have a workable escort fighter right from the start of the jet age.

That is a heckuva What If all on its own!

Madoc

[deathjester]

Ok, just had idea for parasite fighters, based on flying boom IFR system.  A beefed up flying boom is used to 'lock-on' to the parasite aircraft in the usual fashion, but can then be used to pull the aircraft inboard!  Think robot arm on the space shuttle, and you have the general idea.  Of course, there would have to be an articulated joint near the actual connection to the fighter.  Also, since it's adapted from an IFR system, it could still transfer fuel to the parasite WITHOUT the need to pull it back into the bay.  Now think about this: iif you had a cover formation of bombers, equipped with the radar dome off of the AEW Super Constellations, and parasite fighter, you  would have the hub of an Air Controlled Intercept system (a'la GCI), but with the capacity to rapidly refuel/rearm the aircraft - and MOVE.
  Would make protecting all those eastward-bound bombers a whole lot easier...

[Jschmus]

This is another thread resurrection, but Greg Goebel's latest Air Vectors update is an article about parasite fighters.

http://www.vectorsite.net/avparsit.html

The article starts with the US Navy fighter-carrying airships Akron and Macon, proceeds through the Russian Zveno projects, covers the Goblin and F-84 FICON projects, and ends with a proposal to adapt the Boeing 747 into a flying aircraft carrier.  Neat stuff.

[Doc Yo]

 I make it a point to visit Air Vectors right around the first of the month-always worthwhile.

I wonder if the C-99, fitted with  jet pods, wouldn't have
made a slighty better platform for the Goblin? It certainly could have carried more than three of them...

[elmayerle]

I once did some concepts for an artist of an advanced parasite fighter (looked like a cross between a squashed A-4 and a squashed F-16) carried by a turboprop-powered B-60 version (4x P&W T57).  I don't know if his art is still around online and my workups for these are back home in Texas.

[GTX]

I make it a point to visit Air Vectors right around the first of the month-always worthwhile.

I wonder if the C-99, fitted with  jet pods, wouldn't have
made a slighty better platform for the Goblin? It certainly could have carried more than three of them...

Interesting idea - a escort mothership for B-36 formations!

Regards,

Greg