Super Etendard/mirage F.1 Question

[PanzerWulff]

I was thinking (Dangerous habit I know) of trading markings from a USMC harrier to either a Academy Super Etendard or Hasegawa Mirage F.1C i have and Vice Versa and was wondering what aircraft was the US Equivelant of the Etendard or mirage F.1 Was it the A-4 Skyhawk?? Just Wondering
"Panzer"

[Gervasius]

The way I see it, A-7 as equivalent of Super Etendard, and early F-16 as Mirage F.1.

Marko

[Shasper]

That could be a loaded question. In the light attack role, the SuE stacks up in the same class as the Scooter, but since the Sue has radar & can launch BVR missiles (at least AShMs, not sure about any AAMs other than the IR stuff), I'm not sure as to what would be the equivilent.

For the MF1, it was put up against the F-16 back in the day.

Shas B)  

[Radish]

If trading markings, I'd go for anything that "physically" fits.

I've just put 1/48th RAF 19Sqn markings from a grey Hawk on a black-ish Revell Obi-Wan Kenobi Star Frighter, and it looks good.

Going for an Italian one next, using F-86 Sabre decals  

[upnorth]

That could be a loaded question. In the light attack role, the SuE stacks up in the same class as the Scooter, but since the Sue has radar & can launch BVR missiles (at least AShMs, not sure about any AAMs other than the IR stuff), I'm not sure as to what would be the equivilent.

For the MF1, it was put up against the F-16 back in the day.

Shas B)

By that description, it sounds like the SuE is actually hedging along the lines of the F-5E except I'm not aware that any of the F-5 family members had ASM ability and I know they didn't go on boats.

I'm now seeing visions of a SuE in Marines aggresor markings.

How would a SuE compare to early block A/B Hornets?

[Shasper]

The F-20 was wired for the Harpoon.

I think the SuE carries a lighter bombload, and has less range than the early Bugs, but I'm not totally sure as I dont really keep up-to-date w/frenchy stuff.

Shas B)

[P1127]

I'd say A-7 without the bomb load

[Archibald]

Super Etendard = 70's Scooter

The A-7 was much more versatile and powerfull (it was the main preference of the french navy, but Jaguar M and SE were (more or less) FRENCH and DASSAULT aircrafts, and that was more important than performances or avionics    )

A-7s had LGBs, a modern engine, anti-radiation missiles.. (no martels for the SE)
Early SE (1978) carried
- Exocets
- iron bombs / rocket pods (very useful against SA-6s   )
- Magic IR AAMs

That's all !!  
LGBs, AS-30L and ASMP came later (in the 80's or even the 90's).

Mirage F-1 was more in the early F-16 league ( but I would say its closer equivalent was the Phantom, the two aircrafts were in competition in Greece in the early 70's for example).
Iraqis F-1E were roughly equivalents to Iranian Phantoms in the 80's. The F-1 was more modern, agile and lighter than the F-4. Of course, its range, acceleration and climb were lower. Both had excellent medium range AAMs (Sparrow and
Super-530) and radars...

 

[Shasper]

In short, the French A/C have their own unique niche & have no real equivilents!  


Shas B)

[B777LR]

Ah, but archie, of course we can make the Super Etendart better than A-7  

[Zen]

Of course we can!

Whats the size of an Atar jet engine?

[Shasper]

Similar to the J52 I imagine, but dont take my word for it.

Shas B)

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

In short, the French A/C have their own unique niche & have no real equivilents!

Well, on a French point of view, that's the American who have their own niche!!      
Just kiding!!

More seriously, you're completely right! Indeed, French, just like Swedish, always want planes who are specifically adapted to their own needs (and sometimes, the needs are adapted to the more "French" option, like Archie said! )
That gives planes who are very adapted to French needs, but not very to the export market.


To answer the question, here is my point of view (I'll try to make simple):

Super Etendard could be considered as beeing between the A-4 Skyhawk and the A-7...
In fact, it was based on the Etendard IV, wich was really close to the early A-4!! The Suepr Etendard is the result of a choice of continuity, just like if the Navy chose to adapt a radar and Harpoon/A2G missiles on the A-4 instead of going for the A-7

Present Super Etendard could be compared to Singaporian or Argentinian modernised A-4 (with some goodies in more, some less...)

Mirage F1 was the competitor of the F-4, the F-5 and the F-16 because it became operational between two american generations of aircrafts.
For my part, I wont compare it to the F-4 Phantom: the Mirage F1 delt with it on export market, but they are two different aircrafts designed for different purpose. Some Air Force like Spain and Greece chose to operate both fighters in different missions. For me, the early Mirage F1 are between F-5 (for size and agility) and F-4 (for BVR abilities, speed and altitude)

If you really want to compare the nowadays Mirage F1 to a US aircraft, compared it to the F-20 Tigershark, or modernised Tiger II. The Mirage F1 is a kind of F-5E with real BVR abilities and a Mach 2 ability.

If I were you, I will better compared it to the Mig-23... But both Mig-23 and Mirage F1 had no similar US competitor at their beginings, except the much bigger F-4 and the too limited F-5...



But every comparison depends on what you want to take under consideration. The aircraft generation, the design philosophies and the operationnal needs are too differents between france and USA...

Of course we can!

Whats the size of an Atar jet engine?

I studied a lot of datas on the Super Etendard, triying to find every possibilities of modernisation of the beast.

For the engine, a modernisation similar to the Singaporian A-4 one is possible, with an engine having more power and less consumption (F404, F414, EJ200 or M88 in a dedicate dry variant could fit easily in the plane). It will let space for additional armor and ECM systems, and maybe internal fuel if needed.

For the systems, the upgraded SeM already fit a PESA radar (ANEMONE) able to good air-air abilities (BVR detection, and good combat abilities in close air combat), but possibily upgraded with RBE-2 goodies...
A multipurpose light radar (a AESA variant of the ANEMONE or the RC-400) could allowed the plane to have BVR abilities and better air-to-ground capacities.

A glass cokpit and new weapons will finished to allow it to go for 20 more years as a decent light attack fighter!

See here for more information.

[PanzerWulff]

Thanks guys for all the Great information it will help define the roles of the aircraft in my what if scenareo

[dragon]

You might want to use the decals from the Testors F-21 Kfir instead of the Harrier.  They might fit better due to similarity in the air frames.  They will also say USMC.  Just a thought. B)