Hawker Henley Instead Of Fairey Battle.

BillSlim · March 12, 2007, 03:02:12 AM

As many of you will know for whatever reason, possibly because the Air Ministry believed that dive bombing would be obsolete within 2 years, when selecting its new light bomber the RAF chose the Fairey Battle rather than the Hawker Henley.
The Battle was almost as large as a Blenheim, but only had a single Merlin, making it a tad underpowered and slow.
The Henley, OTOH, was smaller and faster, though it had a shorter range, though as it was intended to be a CAS platform that shouldn't be a problem.

As the Henley used a lot of Hurricane components, including the outer wing pannels it had the potential to be quite a useful eight gun fighter-bomber, and possibly also a useful night-fighter if fitted with AI.
IMVHO the potential of the Henley was wasted, and the Battle, an aircraft eminentley suitable as a target tug was instead used as a bomber.

Perhaps an example of this lunacy was the Skua raid against the Konigsberg. The Skuas were flying to the very limit of their endurance and there was a very real chance that some of them would run out of fuel on the way back. The Henley had enough endurance to do the same raid comfortably.
Now the RAF had loaned the Royal Navy some Henley targer tugs, so guess what was at RNAS Hatson, the station the raid was lauched from? That's right a Henley target tug. The mind boggles.

Personally I think it would have been a better decision to swap the Henley and the Battle around. Henley as light bomber, Battle as target tug, especially since rather irronically the Henley was crap as a tug, something the Battle seems to have been OK at.

Any thoughts?

Glenn Gilbertson · March 12, 2007, 05:33:39 AM

QuoteIMVHO the potential of the Henley was wasted, and the Battle, an aircraft eminentley suitable as a target tug was instead used as a bomber.

Personally I think it would have been a better decision to swap the Henley and the Battle around. Henley as light bomber, Battle as target tug, especially since rather irronically the Henley was crap as a tug, something the Battle seems to have been OK at.

BillSlim, I share your opinions. A mixed Huricane/Henley expeditionary force would have had great advantages for spares holdings and maintainence.
In a moment of madness at Telford I agreed to write a "whatif" article for MAM - the Henley will feature (Magna Models, "British volunteer anti-Bolshevik forces"). Watch this space, must get on with the modelling!

NARSES2 · March 12, 2007, 05:35:54 AM

Got to agree with you Bill, even thought of a navalised version instead of the Skua

Chris

BillSlim · March 12, 2007, 05:52:15 AM

QuoteBillSlim, I share your opinions. A mixed Huricane/Henley expeditionary force would have had great advantages for spares holdings and maintainence.

Certainly far better than a Hurricane/Battle force.
Given that the Henley seems to have used the outer wing pannels from the Hurricane I think I would be right in assuming that it could be armed with the same weapons - e.g. 8-12 .303" Brownings, 4 20mm cannon, or even the Vickers 'S'.
Be nice to see a model of the Henley as a bomber

I did once a while back write a brief AH in which the Henley was chosen rather than the Battle. I had assumed that as well as a bomber the Henley, when armed with 8 Brownings, was used in the air defence role in the north of the UK during the BoB, freeing up more Hurricanes and Spitfires for the south.
I also had it fitted with AI, turning it into the most sucessful RAF nightfighter until the Beaufighter is available (actually the Defiant).

QuoteGot to agree with you Bill, even thought of a navalised version instead of the Skua

I included a link on Mav's profile thread to a site with a picture of an FAA Henley. Much as I like the Skua, the Henley might have been a better dive-bomber/fighter for the navy.

Maverick · March 13, 2007, 05:48:45 AM

My own Henley whifs were very much Desert AF Hurricane inspired. I'll have to dig em out and check out those links... will make quite a different look for a couple of birds.

BillSlim · March 14, 2007, 02:09:16 AM

Interesting, I hadn't known that. Makes sense though, especially when we were putting bomb racks on anything with wings and planned to use Tiger Moths to deliver mustard gas!

People tend to think that procurement screw-ups are a modern phenomenon, but the Air Ministry thought process that went something on the lines of 'let's turn a potentially good light bomber into a crap target tug, and a potentially good target tug into a crap light bomber' demonstrates that they are nothing new.

QuoteI've also toyed with the idea of the RAF using Skuas for dive bombing the German invasion barges.

The FAA did use them for exactly that role in 1940 acording to Smith's new book. At least one Skua squadron was relocated to southern England and put under Coastal Command for anti-barge duty.
Mind you they would have to hit them in port during the day as apparently the Germans planned to cross at night. Why, I don't know, as it would rob them of air cover and leave them open to attack by the Royal Navy. But then Sealion's planning is one of the best comedy scripts I've ever read

Be nice to see a model of one, were you to finish it, Wooksta.

Slightly OT, but are you coming to the Scottish nationals this year?

kitnut617 · March 14, 2007, 02:52:05 AM

Rolls Royce also had a Henley as an engine flying test bed

BillSlim · March 14, 2007, 04:36:41 AM

IIRC it was at various times fitted with an Eagle and a Griffon.

BillSlim · March 15, 2007, 02:29:11 PM

Glad to hear it, I should be there on one of the days.

Would I be right in thinking you've be watching 'Life on Mars'?

Martin H · March 15, 2007, 02:59:27 PM

I built the Dujin kit a few years back...yep it was a sod to build. did it as a battle of France bird, Lee almost spat blood when he saw the pics, yet another model that i had beaten him to the punch.

Maverick · March 15, 2007, 03:09:33 PM

Sweet Henly MH,

Looks just the part

Regards,

Mav

elmayerle · March 19, 2007, 11:31:33 PM

While we're on this line of thought, how about the Hawker Hotspur instead of the Defiant? With a commonality with the Henley and Hurricane, I could see some real advantages.

Maverick · March 19, 2007, 11:50:56 PM

QuoteWhile we're on this line of thought, how about the Hawker Hotspur instead of the Defiant? With a commonality with the Henley and Hurricane, I could see some real advantages.

Of course, like the Defiant, that turret is causing god-awful drag, but maybe given the size of the critter compared to Defiant, she's ripe for AI radar as a night-fighter?

OK, I'll add it to the list!

Regards,

Mav

jcf · March 20, 2007, 01:37:55 PM

QuoteIIRC it was at various times fitted with an Eagle and a Griffon.

Vulture and Griffon.

jcf · March 20, 2007, 01:52:38 PM

The first order of business would be to re-engine the Henley with a 20 series Merlin.

As to the Hotspur, the aircraft began as a re-design of the Henley with a whole new cockpit enclosure incorporating a semi-powered Boulton-Paul turret, standard Hurricane outer wing panels were used.
The Hotspur was smaller than the Henley; 40' 6" span, 32' 10.5" length versus 47' 10.5" span, 36' 5" length.

The turret was later removed because of the drag problem and the cockpit enclosure modified by fairing over the gunner's position, the aircraft was then assigned to the Henley bomber development program.

I'd give the Hotspur a 20 series and Hurricane type radiator in an armoured bathtub rather than the chin rad.

Cheers, Jon