Raaf Could-have-been's

[Spellbinder99]

All the recent discussion about the SuperHornet buy had me thinking about when I lived through the Mirage replacement selection process back in the seventies and eighties that resulted in the eventual Hornet buy.
It seemed to go on forever but at times some tasty aircraft types were mooted as Mirage successors and would make some great "could have been" modelling subjects.

Of course, at the time the manufacturers spent a lot of time and money creating artists renderings and models of the contenders to "sell" their products and a recent discussion session on the DRN (defence restricted network) brought some of those back to mind.

This is not a political discussion or mudfight about relative abilities of airframes, so walk away if you want to start such a fight here as per the SuperHornet thread, this is all and only about the modelling possibilities.

So, what did we have to play with?

The SAAB Viggen. Natural metal metal delivery at the time, but apparently a rendering of the aircraft in Phantom style South East Asian camouflage was seen at the time.

The A-10. Apparently the prefered ground attack workhorse in combination with the F-15C for air-to air work back when a two aircraft solution was looking possible.

The F-14 Tomcat. A painting of a 77 squadron marked example apparently existed at the time....tasty!

The Kfir......god help me another bloody Mirage, but different enough in F-21 style paint to be considered.

The Tornado. Quite a few options but most probably standard RAF, so ho-hum.

The F-18L. Different enough to look good plus a USAF style scheme rather than USN?

This is all of the top of my head, but ideas are welcome.

Cheers

Tony

[Mike Wren]

Mirage 2000EO... haven't quite finished this one yet, but since this pic it's received it's weapons & all I need to do is finish the u/c & canopy off

[Ocean]

Originally it was Viggen, F-17, F-15 and Mirage F-1 in the first half of the 70's.

Later in 1977 when the serious work was done, it was F-16, F-15, Mirage 2000, Tornado, F-18A and F-18L. Tornado and F-15 were rejected next as either too specialised in one role or the other(plus cost for the F-15 at the time !). Mirage 2000 and F-18L were next to go  leaving the F-16 and F-18A to slog it out.

(Tony see if you can get a copy of Hornets down Under off Roy as that covers the development of the F-18 and the RAAF selection process)

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

In a more "what-if" (and less "could have been") world, if the Mirage 4000 was selected by France, could it have had any chance in Australia??

I remember I draw a profile of a RAAF because I thought that the Mirage 4000 could have been a good contender t othe F-18 or the F-15...



Back to the "could-have-been" possibilities, I think a F-16 or even a F/A-16 (something between the initial F-16 and the abandoned A-16) could look good in RAAF desert scheme!!

[GTX]

Tony,

I love the proposal - in fact it is my aim to create models of all the altternative aicraft the RAAF/RAA could have selected (i.e those that were actually looked at/offered)for not only the F/A-18, but also the Mirage, Macchi and Tiger.  Will post what pics I have later.

Regards,

Greg

[Maverick]

When I was in High School I recall getting a mag with the Jaguar of all things advertised as a replacement.  Great for CAS and Recon, but not a fighter methinks.

[Iranian F-14A]

When I was in High School I recall getting a mag with the Jaguar of all things advertised as a replacement.  Great for CAS and Recon, but not a fighter methinks.

Well,ya know,Oman did use them as fighters(and still might until the F-16s get up and going).They replaced their long serving Hunters with Jags in fact.Just strapped a couple Sidewinders under the outer hardpoints.

[gunfighter]

Well, I think a very viable contender, though a little expensive as it would be a new development, could be a Tornado FGA, I think someone did a profile in IDF AF markings in the past. This, based on a F2 airframe, retaining the Foxhunter, but with some a2g capability is in my opinion a good alternative to the other multirole aircraft, and a solution to the lack of performance as a pure fighter of the IDS. You may attach the bombs in the belly, and desgn a mix Sky Flash/ sidewinder pylon in the wings, similar to that in the tomcats. Add some sea eagle ASMs and you´ve got it.  B)  

[Spellbinder99]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I am actually talking about the aircraft types that were considered in the evaluation processs, so I am not talking about 109's and Sopwith Camels. Keeping to the subject would be nice.

I do remember seeing a picture of an F-16 in Mirage style camouflage (grey/green over light grey) with high-viz roundels which would look good compared to the standard grey on grey.

I just finished seven years working on Jaguars in Oman and trust me, it is no fighter.

The Mirage F1 leaves me cold, but may have been a passing option. A recent article in Australian Aviation did say that the F15 costs were nowhere near as bad as was stated, but at the time their ground attack potential was severely underdeveloped so it left them out.

So possibilities so far...

Viggen in SEA como or natural metal.
F15C in superiority grey with high viz roundels.
F-16 in Mirage camouflage.
Tornado in wrap around grey/green
F1 in delivery camouflage and RAAF markings.
77 Squadron F-14

Cheers

Tony

[GTX]

The Mirage F1 leaves me cold, but may have been a passing option

From what I remember it was actually proposed early on by Dassault.  I believe the offer was quite attractive including full licensed production not only for the RAAf but also for other users as well.  I will check up tonight and give you the exact details.

Regards,

Greg

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

I remember seeing a picture of a B-1 (probably the "B" variant) in RAAF colors.
Was it a contender at this time, maybe in a two plane soultion with F-16(like Jaguar + Mirage F1 or F-15 + A-10) or was it an artist impression made later, when the USAF put some of their B-1B in storage??

[GTX]

Well, here's a model of a RAAF F-16:



Regards,

Greg

[GTX]

Was it a contender at this time, maybe in a two plane soultion with F-16(like Jaguar + Mirage F1 or F-15 + A-10) or was it an artist impression made later, when the USAF put some of their B-1B in storage??

From what I understand, the closest the RAAF came to operating/owning B-1Bs was when the USA tried to get both us and the Brits to take on some during the late'80s/early'90s.  In both cases the answer was "no...we'd like to, but can't afford.."

Regards,

Greg

[Spellbinder99]

I think some talk was made a few years back of offering B1B's as a temporary F-111 replacement till JSF arrival.
I am sure the French did offer an attractive F1 deal in that semi-extortionate way they seemed to deal with the Mirage parts supply deal that landed us with the Squirrel...
However, this is not about politics, so any info on projected schemes would be of interest. It is all about the modelling.....

The Macchi and Saber replacement process was a source of interest as well. F-104 or EE Lightning rather than Mirage? Avon Mirage rather than Atar powered? The Hawk replacing the Macchi in the mid 1970's as originally intended as Australia was originally part of the initial design and developement process.
Hawks in Roulettes colours or RAN Oxford Blue, White and Silver? I have an Airfix 1/48th scale T1 that is intended to be a RAN one.

The basic theme is aircraft that almost were, rather than ones that never were even in the race.

Cheers

Tony

[GTX]

Tony,

I agree with your criteria.  In the case of the Mirage competitors, I believe the list includes not only the F-104 and Lightning but also the Draken and possibly (though this is really stretching it) the F-105.  Will check my references tonight.

With regards to the Macchi (not so much Macchi replacement) there was also the SAAB 105.  I can't remember what else was looked at.

Regards,

Greg