Hawker P.1154

[Martin H]

hmm 8 sqn. Has it got a dish on top?

[Martin H]

Now Now lee, you have known me long enougth to know i was extracting the urine dear boy.    

[mikeew]

Hi All,
What weaponry and stores would the P.1154 carry?
Would I be making a rather rash assumption to think that stores from a Harrier GR.3 would be fine to hang on the wings?
I'm thinking in addition to tanks, maybe Matra SNEB rocket pods, BL755's or even maybe Paveway LGB's? what about possible carriage of Sidewinders too?
Purely hypothetical I know, but just wanted some more opinions from some of you seasoned "Whiffers"

[Zen]

Nord AS weapons for one, Bullpup, Red Top (perhaps Radar Red Top II), 500lb, 1,000lb, and 2,000lb bombs, WE177, rocket pods (FFAR I think).

Bl.755 is quite likely as is some LGB's.

Its possible Martell and SeaEagle though the latter is more likely, or if we're whiffing then perhaps the Tychon range of glide bombs.

Boz dispensers for chaff and flares, Skyshadow ECM pod.

Sidewinder is quite likely.

[kitnut617]

In the latest BSP volume, Hypersonics etc., there some pictures showing it carrying four Red Tops and two Tychon (which is described as a 'Momentum Bomb') The position of the Red Tops is interesting, two are carried under the wings outboard the wheels (this is on the Navy version) and the other two are on pylons on the sides of the fuselage similar to an EE Lightning but these pylons are set at about 45 degrees downwards.  The pylons are also inline with the rear cockpit.

Then there's another picture of a Navy P.1154 carrying two CF.299 missiles, which is an AAM version of a SAM.  These are supposed to be 'beyond-visual-range' AAM and look to be roughly the size of a Phoenix.

There's actually a very nice colour rendering on page 28 at the start of chapter 3

Robert

[Hobbes]

CF.299 is the Sea Dart. Would look cool, but its use was unlikely due to the high drag caused by the ramjet intake.  

[elmayerle]

CF.299 is the Sea Dart. Would look cool, but its use was unlikely due to the high drag caused by the ramjet intake.

So put a frangible fairiing in front of the intake until you fire the missile.

How about adding the SARH version of Redtop/Firestreak?

[Maverick]

Well, that answers a question or two....  Sounds like the Brit weapons industry was moving along some advanced lines at that point.

Mav

[Thorvic]

Well, that answers a question or two....  Sounds like the Brit weapons industry was moving along some advanced lines at that point.

Mav

John

You should try and get hold of "British Secret Projects - Missiles & Hypersonics" recently released by Chris Gibson. This book covers the Missile programs a dn gives a great insight into the possible armament oprions to go with our whifs.

You'll love the hypersonics ssecond half to the book as well as this covers lots of the varioue high speed aircraft designs  

Cheers

Geoff

(It also gives us another string to whiffing - actual operational aircraft in the correct colour schemes but armed with the projected weapon systems   ...)

[Maverick]

BSPs of all sorts are on the list Geoff, just had a squiz thru Amazon and the bank balance got up and left the room!!!    

[Zen]

theres a rather curious Vickers SARH AAM for the OR346 machine, no designation or name however.

But considering its appearence how about 'Red Card' or 'Red Fan'.

[Zen]

Hmmm......

Short Take Offs where developed during the evaluation of the P1127, and the USMC use this method from their flat top assault carriers. The plane gains enough forward velocity for aerodynamic controls to 'bite' avoiding the need for RCS bleed, then the engine thrust is vectored to push the machine into the air.

Timing is somewhat critical for this operation.

So most likely is just that or the use of a Ski-ramp for launch as per history, but with the addition of holdback and jet blast deflectors.

Recovery for a ship at sea, the best option is to land over pierced decking (preferably cooled internaly) for a VL recovery, ideal for part of the deck sponsoned over the sea. The 1,000 degree PCB jets mainly pass through down to the sea and what does'nt is controllable.

I'm having some worries about the radar, and need to know more about the Aspinal CW set, AI.24 may orriginate back at this time, as FICMW was being explored for a number of uses. If the radar is an early AI.24 they may not see it in service until the 1980's!

[uk 75]

There is an excellent article on HS 1154 by Mike McEvoy in Air Britain from about 2002-3.

There has been much written on the armament for the RAF version. Some things seem likely though.

The 1154 would not have carried missiles (like the existing Harriers and Jaguars) as it was mainly intended as a close support aircraft with bombs, rocket pods and canon pods.  It was originally intended to ship AS 30s, Martels and Red Tops. However, the AS30s and Martels were dropped from the final spec.  As Red Tops were in pretty short supply even for the Lightning force, I imagine that 1154s would have had to wait until the 70s-80s for Sidewinders to be doled out.

If the 1154 fleet had survived into the 90s, then a range of possibilities come into play.

Hope this helps

UK 75

[kitnut617]

CF.299 is the Sea Dart. Would look cool, but its use was unlikely due to the high drag caused by the ramjet intake.

So put a frangible fairiing in front of the intake until you fire the missile.

How about adding the SARH version of Redtop/Firestreak?

I remember there is a reference to frangible fairings but I'm not sure if it was for this missile, The drag of the ramjet was definitely discussed.

The 3-view of the Navy P.1154 shows two round tipped Red Tops (fuselage) and two which look to have Fire Streak pointed tips (under wings)  There's also a photo of the pointed tipped Red Top.

[Hobbes]

That sounds like the SARH Red Top. IIRC it was also a bit longer than the IR Red Top.