Civilian Aircraft and Military Training Aircraft Converted to COIN Missions

[kitnut617]

The Beech Bonanza has some potential too. I seem to recall seeing at least one picture of an IDF V35 Bonanza rigged out with some small bombs. I think in its single tailed variation it was used as a trainer, I know the Canadian Forces used them and I think they were called Musketeers.

I've been looking for a 1/72 Musketeer for sometime and after reading this I thought this would be the way to go, Arii make a Bonanza in 1/72.  But after doing a bit of research I've found that the Musketeer is a much smaller aircraft than the Bonanza and looks quite a bit different too.

[Weaver]

Speaking of light trainer/attack types, I always liked the sheer optimism of Microturbo's Microjet 200. It was a really TINY side-by-side two-seater with a V-tail and two 293lb thrust TRS-18-1s, but they still offered a range of weapon hadpoints (with ratings in the low hundreds of pounds) and the option of replacing the pupil with either a prone stretcher case or a single 20mm......



Info here: http://www.machdiamonds.com/microjetf.html

Also, follow the link to the SIPA 200....



Lord knows how you'd model either of these. You could probably get something approximating to the SIPA 200 by scaloramaring a 1/72nd Vampire up to 1/48th.........

In Patchwork World, the bottom end of the market is full of things like this: with so many tinpot little states and aircraft companies, virtually everything is made somewhere...

[famvburg]

  Um, I'm not sure where you got your info or what your interpretation of 'much smaller' is, but both the Musketeer & 35 Bonanza are essentially the same length & span. Literally only a few inches difference. If you're talking 36 Bonanza, which AFAIK there is no kit, it's only about 2 feet longer. Also, Beech did offer a version of the A36 Bonanza with the GTSIO-520 engine & I think some other mods as a CoIn a/c.

     

The Beech Bonanza has some potential too. I seem to recall seeing at least one picture of an IDF V35 Bonanza rigged out with some small bombs. I think in its single tailed variation it was used as a trainer, I know the Canadian Forces used them and I think they were called Musketeers.

I've been looking for a 1/72 Musketeer for sometime and after reading this I thought this would be the way to go, Arii make a Bonanza in 1/72.  But after doing a bit of research I've found that the Musketeer is a much smaller aircraft than the Bonanza and looks quite a bit different too.

[kitnut617]

  Um, I'm not sure where you got your info or what your interpretation of 'much smaller' is, but both the Musketeer & 35 Bonanza are essentially the same length & span. Literally only a few inches difference. If you're talking 36 Bonanza, which AFAIK there is no kit, it's only about 2 feet longer. Also, Beech did offer a version of the A36 Bonanza with the GTSIO-520 engine & I think some other mods as a CoIn a/c.

Hmm! you're right, I was quoting what it says on Wiki' but then checking the dimensions given, they contradict what the text says, the only difference I can see is the height, a whopping 6 feet different.  Somethings a bit fishy there I think as they look practically the same.

Edit:  But now I've got the two pictures together I can see the difference

[famvburg]

     Don't count on that 'whopping 6 feet difference' in height, either. Again, the 36 pictured along with the Muskie is within INCHES, not feet, in height of each other. I'm sure the V-tail 35 is not as high, but certainly not 6 feet diff. Another thing to consider with these whifs, beings whifs it doesn't really matter, but in the real world, most of these small civil a/c are hard pressed, especially in hot temps, to get off the ground with full people & full fuel, not to mention the additional weight & drag of external stores figured in. One should definitely include bigger engines into the plan.

  Um, I'm not sure where you got your info or what your interpretation of 'much smaller' is, but both the Musketeer & 35 Bonanza are essentially the same length & span. Literally only a few inches difference. If you're talking 36 Bonanza, which AFAIK there is no kit, it's only about 2 feet longer. Also, Beech did offer a version of the A36 Bonanza with the GTSIO-520 engine & I think some other mods as a CoIn a/c.

Hmm! you're right, I was quoting what it says on Wiki' but then checking the dimensions given, they contradict what the text says, the only difference I can see is the height, a whopping 6 feet different.  Somethings a bit fishy there I think as they look practically the same.

Edit:  But now I've got the two pictures together I can see the difference

[kitnut617]

     Don't count on that 'whopping 6 feet difference' in height, either. Again, the 36 pictured along with the Muskie is within INCHES, not feet, in height of each other. I'm sure the V-tail 35 is not as high, but certainly not 6 feet diff.

I think I agree with you there!  Well now that I know I could get a Muskie out of a Bonanza I'm on the prowl for an Arii (?) 1/72 Bonanza kit 

[famvburg]

    I'm not so sure about that, but get an Airfix Cherokee Arrow, or a couple, for the wings & the stabilator. I always say the Musketeer & Sierra were designed by a guy who left work at Piper & went to work for Beechcraft! Reminds me more of a big fat Cherokee than a Bonanza.

     Don't count on that 'whopping 6 feet difference' in height, either. Again, the 36 pictured along with the Muskie is within INCHES, not feet, in height of each other. I'm sure the V-tail 35 is not as high, but certainly not 6 feet diff.

I think I agree with you there!  Well now that I know I could get a Muskie out of a Bonanza I'm on the prowl for an Arii (?) 1/72 Bonanza kit 

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Ian did take my suggestion and has now propsed a "Trainers With Teeth" Group Build. 
Link to that topic in the GB Archive: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,20217.0.html

[kitnut617]

I'm not so sure about that, but get an Airfix Cherokee Arrow, or a couple, for the wings & the stabilator. I always say the Musketeer & Sierra were designed by a guy who left work at Piper & went to work for Beechcraft! Reminds me more of a big fat Cherokee than a Bonanza.

I had wondered about the Cherokee, I've looked at it a number of times but couldn't decide if it was close to a Muskie, I need some plan views of the three aircraft so I can see what's involved with doing a conversion.  You wouldn't know where I can get some 3-views?

[kitnut617]

Well I've got hold of an Arii Bonanza, just need a Cherokee (or two) now

[The Rat]

I had wondered about the Cherokee, I've looked at it a number of times but couldn't decide if it was close to a Muskie, I need some plan views of the three aircraft so I can see what's involved with doing a conversion.  You wouldn't know where I can get some 3-views?

I've worked around both and trust me, you can't make a Musketeer out of a Cherokee. The Beechcraft is superficially similar in layout, but it's much beefier all around and the outline is different. I believe Hobbycraft did a Musketeer, can't remember the scale.

[kitnut617]

Thanks Roddy (as in 'the rodent')  I guess I do need some 3-views don't I?  How much bigger is the Bonanza to the Muskie, fuselage wise?  As farmburg has pointed out, there's not a lot of difference in span and length.  The photos I've looked at show that the window posts are in different positions but the windshield looks to be about the same size.  Is that a correct assumption?

[famvburg]

     I really don't think you can make a Musketeer out of a Bonanza either. I don't think anyone's done a Musketeer in any scale.

I had wondered about the Cherokee, I've looked at it a number of times but couldn't decide if it was close to a Muskie, I need some plan views of the three aircraft so I can see what's involved with doing a conversion.  You wouldn't know where I can get some 3-views?

I've worked around both and trust me, you can't make a Musketeer out of a Cherokee. The Beechcraft is superficially similar in layout, but it's much beefier all around and the outline is different. I believe Hobbycraft did a Musketeer, can't remember the scale.

[famvburg]

          I think the Musketeer's fuselage is actually bigger than the Bonanza's.

Thanks Roddy (as in 'the rodent')  I guess I do need some 3-views don't I?  How much bigger is the Bonanza to the Muskie, fuselage wise?  As farmburg has pointed out, there's not a lot of difference in span and length.  The photos I've looked at show that the window posts are in different positions but the windshield looks to be about the same size.  Is that a correct assumption?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

I picked up a 1/48th scale PM SIAT 223 Flamingo kit a very long time ago.  At first glance, I had an idea for an armed aircraft for a FAC conversion.  Adding a pair of rocket pods and maybe gun pods to the wings.  The cockpit is in dire need of an upgrade to something that resembles a military aircraft.  As it is out of the box it is pretty basic and it really does need a lot of work.  On the to do list but got no clue when it will be done.