General Dynamics Type 200

[Archibald]

Let's see... seems you red in my mind, because here's what I did yesterday    

The Cockpit is the real pain in the arse however as its somewhat higher with a new canopy (more Sea Harrier in style - AV-8B would have been ideal if it wasn't bulged - DOH).

You said it! I went as far as removing my GR.5 canopy to see if it matched well... it didn't, so I've sanded the 2000 canopy until I obtained a decent result.
And this cockpit is truly a pain in the... neck!

A blunt drop tank might do for the nose cone in place of the nice pointy mirage one (that can then be used elsewhere)

I didn't lose time... part of decals went to the Mako, and the nose to my Mirage F2    
At a time I worked on three models at the same time (Mako, Mirage F2 and this convair 200   )

Intakes are probably best scratch built although a Tornado's might be adapted and lengthened. Then its a case of plenty PSR with a touch of milliput to belend it all together

Exactly what I planed, scratchbuilded intakes, from cardboard (Yum, this will please Rafa) or plastic card, don't know yet...

For the rear part of the fuselage I've used a X-35 exhaust. And it fited nicely into the rear fuselage.  For its doors, I've simply "opened" the 2000 fuselage like a box.(I've weakened it with a saw, then delicately torn it to the sides...)


I've cut and chopped this  Mirage 2000 to death (to say the least)  ^_^

About the lift jets, I've used two small tubes made from pens, and added on top a pair of M53 compressors. These compressors had two rings, I've only kept the smaller one, which fit well.

Tons of PSR for this one...

[Rafael]

Go, Archi, Go!!!

Rafa

Yeah, part of my future line-up has a Convair-200, an XFV-12, and an ALR Piranha. But first, I have to finish [/german malevolent voice ON] Projekt-X  [/german malevolent voice OFF] Muahahahaha-HAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Archibald]

Hmmm I still haven't posted pics of the build simply because I'm not sure of finishing it... things are better now, but before that I have to cut the fuselge too times as it was too short    
It is now 21 cm long, and fit nicely onto a 1/72 scale plan.

The ultimate collection of -viable- V/STOL fighters

- Harrier
- Harrier II
- Sea Harrier
- P.1154
- P.1216
this, for british side...

- X-32
- F-32 (tailed variant)
- X-35
- GD type 200
- XFV-12
(the american side)  

- VAK-191

- Yak-38
- Yak-41

[elmayerle]

Going to do both the built single-seat VAK-191B and the unbuilt twin-seat version?  Frankly, IMHO, if they'd mated that twin-seat cockpit with the larger wing(s) studied for advanced, production versions they'd have had the basis for a good N/AW vstol attacker.  Mind you, the as-built VAK-191B had, ISTR, a wing loading that made the F-105 look good and definitely needed a bigger wing.

[Archibald]

Nope, the list was just a long-term dream    
Seems the USN tested the VAK-191B in the mid-70s... there's was a cool color profile in Le Fana de l'aviation, April 2003.


This VAK- thingy looks very similar to a Forger!  

[elmayerle]

Nope, the list was just a long-term dream    
Seems the USN tested the VAK-191B in the mid-70s... there's was a cool color profile in Le Fana de l'aviation, April 2003.


This VAK- thingy looks very similar to a Forger!

It looks rather like a cross between a Forger and a Harrier, IMHO.  Thing is, it's got a lift-cruise engine optimised for supersonic flight, so it needed two lift engines, one forward of the main engine and one aft, for vtol operations.

[Archibald]

I'm rather confused about the RB-193... they say its a Pegasus derivative, ok.
But is the engine conventional, or was the VAK-191 a "four poster" with exhausts similar to the Harrier ?    

[Mossie]

Yes, it was a four poster like Harrier but with additional lift engines fore & aft.

Here's a link to a very good pdf document on German VTOL fighter projects.  It shows some cut-away views of the VAK-191 as well as other images of the machine & other projects:
http://www.vstol.org/GermanVSTOLFighters.pdf

Worth looking through the VSTOL.org site, there's several pdf's for download in the V/STOL Encyclopedia section, including French & Italian aircraft projects:
http://www.vstol.org/

[Archibald]

I already know the V/STOL website, with its famous wheel (that's brilliant!)
Thanks a lot for the Pdf

Yes, it was a four poster like Harrier but with additional lift engines fore & aft.

 That's really odd... why did they bother with such a complicated system ?  

[elmayerle]

I'm rather confused about the RB-193... they say its a Pegasus derivative, ok.
But is the engine conventional, or was the VAK-191 a "four poster" with exhausts similar to the Harrier ?  

Well, more of a cross between a Pegasus and a Spey, from what I've read.  It was indeed a four-poster but it was sized from cruise thrust requirements and this necessitated two dedicated lift engines, one forward and one aft of the lift-cruise engine.  IMHO, all you'd need to add would be the wingtip engine pods of the VJ-101C, or Bell D-188, to arrive at an aircraft that would resemble the combined design talents of Rube Goldberg and Heath Robinson.

[Archibald]

IMHO, all you'd need to add would be the wingtip engine pods of the VJ-101C, or Bell D-188, to arrive at an aircraft that would resemble the combined design talents of Rube Goldberg and Heath Robinson.

I understand the whole tone of this sentence (sounds ironic   ) but not some details on it...

Hmmm an aircraft with Harrier engine, a liftjet on the rear,another behind the cockpit, and tilting banks of lifjets on the wingtips would be something... we have an expression in french for this kind of complicated things.

The exact term being "une usine a gaz" Ie a gas plant... would be apropriate to such machine!

[RLBH]

IMHO, all you'd need to add would be the wingtip engine pods of the VJ-101C, or Bell D-188, to arrive at an aircraft that would resemble the combined design talents of Rube Goldberg and Heath Robinson.

I understand the whole tone of this sentence (sounds ironic   ) but not some details on it...

Hmmm an aircraft with Harrier engine, a liftjet on the rear,another behind the cockpit, and tilting banks of lifjets on the wingtips would be something... we have an expression in french for this kind of complicated things.

The exact term being "une usine a gaz" Ie a gas plant... would be apropriate to such machine!

I've heard this phrase somewhere before, and I doubt it was in my French classes at school. Nothing too useful there. Unless it was that crazy Belgian lady. But I digress, it certainly is an apt description.

[elmayerle]

IMHO, all you'd need to add would be the wingtip engine pods of the VJ-101C, or Bell D-188, to arrive at an aircraft that would resemble the combined design talents of Rube Goldberg and Heath Robinson.

I understand the whole tone of this sentence (sounds ironic   ) but not some details on it...

Hmmm an aircraft with Harrier engine, a liftjet on the rear,another behind the cockpit, and tilting banks of lifjets on the wingtips would be something... we have an expression in french for this kind of complicated things.

The exact term being "une usine a gaz" Ie a gas plant... would be apropriate to such machine!

A "gas guzzler" perhaps?  The concept being a vehicle that consumes fuel at a phenominal rate.  

The concept I was thinking of was more along the lines of an incredibly complex and complicated design.  Rube Goldberg, in the US, and Heath Robinson, in the UK, were cartoonists of the 30's and 40's known for their satirical designs of overly complicated mechanisms to do simple tasks.  What I'm saying is that addition of swiveling tip engine pods would be the final touch in complexity, especially given the extensive and redundant flight control systems both the VAK-191B and VJ-101C required to function.

[Archibald]

Ah, so it would be like Wile E. Coyote traps ?    
I think the Coyote could have made an excellent V/STOL fighter designer...    

So the Vak-191B seem to be a dead end unless you get ride off those lift-jets...

Then Germany could have use it as basis for V/STOL subsonic ground pounder (maybe instead of the Alpha Jets)  

[elmayerle]

In that case, Germany would've been better off to not bother with the expensive R&D and just buy either Harriers or the production rights to Harriers.  After all, there was a reason they took part in the evaluation squadron for the Kestrels.

And, yes, that's probably a good comparison, too, and one I suspect a lot of folk would understand more easily than mine (*chuckle* Guess I'm somewhat showing my age )