'Missing' TSR.2

[TsrJoe]

During sifting the photographic files at BAeHWHG at Warton whilst compiling my piccie CD. and at the Vickers photo Archives in both London and Cambridge, i noticed something missing in their coverage of the TSR.2 project...
I have probably accessed thousands of piccies relating to the TSR.2 aircraft from early mockups right through to scrapping, as well as even finding piccies of gems along the way like nukes on underwing pylons (mockup pics) and bits of XS660 ready for assembly. ...but one airframe eludes me...XR221
I have checked everywhere for any info on this airframe...i know from the PRO. files as to which duties it was to be allocated in the flight test programme (of which more anon) ive even got a copy of its release papers to the ranges at P&EE Shoeburyness for use as a trials airframe (aka. target!) but theres no recipt for it at that end...although everything else seems to have been logged in ?
Does anyone out there in 'Wif' land have or has seen a piccie of this airframe...if i was of a more conspiritorial nature id say that its almost as tho the files have been weeded to remove this particular airframe? im quite sure it was used as its allocation specifies and was scrapped, but for completeness would like to see some evidence of its existence apart from in primer in the background of factory piccies!

Any help would be most welcome...cheers, joe  

...and no  its not currently sitting in a hanger at Boscombe or Groom Lake along with RL202, the missing Arrow...have a closer look at the piccies in pages 143,146,147 of the Arrowheads book...what happened to 202?  

[P1127]

...but one airframe eludes me...XR221

...and no  its not currently sitting in a hanger at Boscombe or Groom Lake along with RL201, the missing Arrow...

No, it's in a guarded hanger at Sukhoi, where it went when Tony Benn & Dennis Healy 'presented' to the Russians. Have you seen the prototype Su-24  

Potential diorama for the Amodel An-22 - wheeling a TSR into the back !  

[Nick]

Way back in the mists of time (alright, about two years ago) over on the aviation pics newsgroup someone posted very nice pics of a scrapyard with more than a few TSR fuselages waiting to be melted down.
I did grab the pic but lost it during a PC meltdown. Perhaps it's worth asking for a repost of this pic to see if any serial numbers can be made out? I think it was taken on a snowy day.....

Nick B)  

[TsrJoe]

from notes made during a chat with Jim Dell, and further to my researches into official/unofficial names for the TSR.2...'the chaps working on them at BAC. knew them by nicknames...quote...
'jim' for 219, 'joe' for 220 and 'jasper' for 221'.. 'joe' still survives pretty much intact at Cosford, wheras jasper (or should that be 'casper'!) has disappeared!

cheers, (tsr)joe    

[P1127]

'jim' for 219, 'joe' for 220 and 'jasper' for 221'..

So will you be TSR220 from now on?  

[TsrJoe]

http://groups.msn.com/TSR-2ResearchGroup/xr221jasper.msnw

[TsrJoe]

re the 'missing Arrow' theres published photographs of the first Arrow Mk.2, RL206 being broken up in situ before final completion, unfortunately no mystery there, Arrow Mk.1, RL202 does appear to be missing in the previously mentioned images?? altho im guessing all were indeed scrapped with none surviving intact eccept as possible structural examples??

cheers, Joe

[ChrisF]

It answers this question on wikepedia... Apparently XR221 was an unfinished airframe... And scrapped

[Thorvic]

It answers this question on wikepedia... Apparently XR221 was an unfinished airframe... And scrapped

Telling the foremost TSR2 expert to look it upon Wikipedia because some body typed it in from a book.........

[chrisonord]

My missus knows someone who, worked on TSR.2 at Warton, I will ask my missus if I can go round and have a chat with him about this "missing" TSR.2, and see what he has to say, well it might be worth while?? Not only that I have friends who still actually work at Warton who might be able to shed some light on the matter.
Chris

[PR19_Kit]

Joe,

Somewhere I've seen a photo of a TSR2 fuselage with most of the removable panels missing, taken from low down, 3/4 forward view from the front.

The aircraft is sitting on some sort of framework that's not as tall as the u/c would lift it, so that means the photographer must have either been in a trench or the aircraft was on rising ground. As I recall the caption said it was taken at Shoeburyness, and it certainly looked like the terrain there (I've worked at the site a few times in the last 30 years....)

But can I remember where I've seen that photo? Can I heck! 

How many TSR2s were used as targets anyway?

On the 'names' bit, what did they call XR222, now at Duxford, and at Cranfield when I was there?

[TsrJoe]

Hiyas kit, the note on nicknames came from Jim Dell who just mentioned the first 3 TSR.2's as being the ones completed at cancellation, unfortunately i dont know of any moniker applied to 222 whilst at Cranfield (unfortunately it had been transferred to Duxford a few years before i studied there)

re. images of XR221, as i noted previously, iv been looking for such a thing for many years and as yet have not found one conclusive shot of the airframe (even under final construction 221 seems to be very elusive, effective weeding?)
I do have one 'snapshot type' image of what i do think is the completed airframe at rollout (theres enough minor differences to it and 220 to make a tenative identification, 222 being uncompleted at cancellation!)

As far as i can find, 219 was certainly destroyed as a 'damage to airframes' target as was a number of fuselage and wing units, ill check through my copies of the daybooks to acertain what was delivered, when and for what purpose

hiyas Chris, any information your good lady could find from Warton would be most welcome, it all adds to our knowledge of the ill fated aircraft. i inow the chaps at BAENWHT. a good and enthusiastic bunch, and was fortunate enough to access and copy their archives on the type.

Re. online references to the TSR.2, most of what iv read (with one or 2 exceptions re individual aspects of the programme) is from derivative sources and should be treated with a healthy dose of scepticism, id much prefer first hand or indeed referenced material relating to any 'historical' studies relating to the TSR.2 as so much of what has been written before over the years has been somewhat 'tainted' by political or personal bias. when i first started accessing the files on TSR.2 and its development over 20 years ago at the Public Records Office i very quickly realised that not all that id 'believed' re its design and cancellation were as clear cut as originally thought

cheers, Joe

[kitnut617]

re the 'missing Arrow' theres published photographs of the first Arrow Mk.2, RL206 being broken up in situ before final completion, unfortunately no mystery there, Arrow Mk.1, RL202 does appear to be missing in the previously mentioned images?? altho im guessing all were indeed scrapped with none surviving intact eccept as possible structural examples??

cheers, Joe

A quick note: just re-found my Arrowhead book, there's a number of colour photos of 'death row' and in the first one I find, there's the first five Arrows.  202 is in some sort of dismantled state already but above this photo is a colour photo of 206 just before Black Friday, it is complete except for the weapon pannier.  A few pages on there are another two photos, one B&W, of the another scene taken by an overpassing aircraft, but taken at slightly different positions. 205 is almost totally dismantled, while 201, 203 and 204 are in various stages of being dismantled but still on their wheels.  202 isn't in these photos.

A few pages forward are some photos of the production line, 206 being almost complete with 207 and 208 behind it in an advanced stage of completion, you can make out another jig behind these two of another being in an early stage of assembly so possibly 209

[TsrJoe]

BAC. TSR.2 XO.3 XR221 'jasper' ...

Regarding XR221, the image posted is the only one iv found thus far after almost 2 decades or so of looking ...

first off my apologies for posting a low resolution version of the original photograph. I'll admit im not completely 100% on it being 221 but the image date on the rear of the photograph, the open underfuselage panel (differing from that 219 and 220), the completedness of the airframe (221 was almost finished aircraft by cancellation) the (uninstalled) drop cameras of the type fitted to 220, all point to it as being a possibility??! (there is another reason relating to why i believe this image not to be 220 based upon information contained on the image rear and its source)

Altho not partial to conspiracy theories, i am of the opinion that the files were systematically weeded to remove any evidence of completed airframes other than 219/220 (there being many images of sections and components of later airframes!)
this is borne out by there not being any material relating to XR221 in any of the established archives on the type, BAENWHT, Brooklands, Cambridge, MoD.DRA. even of the aircraft in an unfinished state, at least as far as iv seen!!?

Just a side note, theres no images of 222 either, the fuselage of the Cranfield/Duxford airframe originally being devoid of a serial marking?!?

Hopefully other images of XR221 may yet appear (if anyone has any possible photographs of the airframe please get in touch or post them on the site!)

cheers, Joe

[kitnut617]

Hi Joe,

Even though I have three of the Airfix 1/72 kits, I'm not really up on the history of the TSR2.  What (or why) would the purpose be of this particular airframe having different access panels to the others in your opinion.

Robert