AVRO CF-105 Arrow WHIF

[Archibald]

In late 1955 the CF-105 program worked at full steam. Everything went well, and the plane was more and more promising, rising worlwide interest. Incidentally there was an ultimate problem to solve, Ie "what weapon system for such machine?"
After examination of various solutions (Velvet glove AAM, Sparrow III and Astra 1 radar build by RCA) it was decided to use off-the-shelf F-106 avionics. Avro decided to share a maximum of data with Convair. This helped cutting budget of the program. So now two variants were planned, the mk.1 were the J-75 prototypes, and Mk.2 first Iroquois-powered machines.
The plane entered service at Comox in late 1960, and proved it had oustanding performances. At the time, the F-108 Rapier had been canclled in septembe 1959, leaving its weapon system (AN/ASG-18 radar, and AIM-47 Falcons) without aircraft to carry it. USAF had decided to go-ahead with such radar, and thought about a
B-58 as testbed.
Then, someone suggested that a CF-105 would be a much more realistic testbed for various reasons. Its weapon bay could handle two AIM-47, and was more practical than the modified pod of a B-58. It was already a fighter, not a bomber, and its performances were much higher.
The Arrow was also much easier to fly than the Hustler thanks to its FBW system.

So in the end Arrow RL-229 was taken out of the production line in February 1961 and send to Hughes for modifications. A much longer radome was fitted, hence nickname of the machine, "Snoopy".
The machine was send to Edwards AFB in September 1961 and began flight testing of AN/ASG-18 and AIM-47 Falcon.

After 18 months, results were so impressive that USAF scrapped its idea of a A-12 fighter variant carrying the system, in a favor of a more realistic, less costly Arrow variant, which Avro dubbed the mk.3.
USAF and RCAF were very interested in the machine, as M-52 bombers had started to test NORAD defences in 1963...
Not only the Arrow mk.3 killed the YF-12, it also smashed the ill-fated F-111B after 1965.
Then come the MiG-25 times... Domodedovo airshow in July 1967 came as a huge shock for western observers. Thnigs get worse after 1971, when MiG-25R overflying Israel and Iran proved totally immune to Phantoms. that's why the Shah decided that he couldn't wait until F-14 or F-15 would be ready for export, circa 1976.
Rehza Pavlavi asked for interceptors-build A-12, then learned about the Arrow mk.3. In 1972  Iranian pilots send to the USA for a F-14 demo also went to Comox air base, and tell tey were impressed by Arrow mk.3, except the cockpit. "this machine would be the ultimate interceptor if it had a canopy similar to the Tomcat" they said.
This was done quickly by Avro, and in late 1972 the Arrow mk.4 flew...    

[Archibald]

Arrows mk.3 and mk.4 were the only aircrafts able to kill MiG-25s in the
1967-1977 era.
In spring 1974, two IRIAF Arrows chased a MiG-25R overflying Iran. They locked their radar on the Soviet fighter, without opening fire. Unsurprisingly, Soviets overflights totally ceased after this date!

Usual load of Iranian Arrows was two AIM-47 in the weapon bay, and four more AAMs below the wings (two AIM-47s and two Sparrows).
Up to eight Sparrows could be carried (four in the weapon bay, four below the wings).
They received a "desert" livery, consisting of two-tone brown, green, and grey underside.  

Atempts to produce a Mach 3+ Arrow had been scrapped in favor of the
AN/ASG-18 variant.
Arrow top speed was now mach 2.55, a decision which proved a wise one at long term...

[Shasper]

Hangin 2 AIM-47s under the wings would create a butt load of drag, so you might want to examin another method of toting the extra missiles. Also the AIM-54 would be in service around the early 70s as well.

Shas B)

[kitnut617]

Interesting thoughts Archie, runs along about the same as mine.  I've read a couple of books about the Arrow and one thing that struck me was it failed in a couple of areas. One was range and the other was what it could carry, or lack of what it could carry.

It was advertized to be able to carry 8 Sparrows in the weapons bay but failed miserable when the actual load was placed in the bay, 3 being all it could carry.  Even when it was switched to carry 8 Falcons the actual load was only 4.

The range was a big concern too and even before the first Arrow flew the RCAF wanted it to go further that the initial 600 mile radius it had (using some of the planned bases this wouldn't have let it leave Canadian airspace) the RCAF wanted 1000 miles or even 1500.

My thoughts on the subject would have been to dump the weapons bay and use the space for fuel tanks, and go to semi-reccessed weapons like the F-4 (which had proved there wasn't much degradation in performance this way) and this way it could carry 8 Sparrows, five across the old weapons bay area and three just behind where the main u/c gear bay is.  I also thought that the canopy wasn't very user friendly and found that an F-4 canopy practically drops onto the fuselage:

Here you can see where I'm going, I'm still working on the weapons bay area which is why I have removed it.  Everything I have or will put on it was available at the time:


Robert

[Archibald]

Kitnut, this already looks superb !!  
You gave me ideas you know !!! I wanted to dug a weapon bay into this (uttershite) Hobbycrap kit, but now I know the way to go...

...four AIM-47 recessed under the belly !!!    

Nose radome from a YF-12. Both have a diameter of 1.2 cm, the YF-12 nose is longer, gave a beastie looks to the Arrow...

What else ? I plan to use a F-14 canopy for this machine. Dimensions sounds ok, aside its length, but this is easy to correct. F-14 canopy already on the way from Heller...

I could add a pair of (F-4 ?) drop tanks underwings, that's another interesting idea

Is your based on this Hobbycrap 1/72 scale kit ?    
Do you reshaped the wings and exhausts ?

It's the second Arrow I build, first ended as a USN Navy (truly a huge whatif   )
I didn't noticed how crude the kit was at the time (it was 7 years ago)  

My thoughts on the subject would have been to dump the weapons bay and use the space for fuel tanks

Why not closing the bay, put fuel tanks on it, then adding a big belly conformal fuel tank similar to the Lightning F6 ?
This would add even more fuel!!! (albeit hanging AAMs would be more difficult in this case...? )  

[dragon]

You might have to use 1/48 scale drop tanks (say from an F-16 or a Mirage III).  Anything else just looks like a toy.   B)  

[Shasper]

You could always add a dorsal spine.

Shas B)

[kitnut617]

Hi Archie,

This is the Hobbycraft kit,  I did a number of fix-ups to the kit, I profiled the wing leading edges to make it match what you can see in this book, there's a number of drawings to look at, highly recommended BTW: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...n=9781550460476

Then I completely rebuilt the main u/c legs as what's in the kit does not represent the real u/c in anyway. There's a number of photos of the real thing in the book along with drawings.
Finally I change the exhaust tailpipes to be more like the Orenda Iroquois tailpipes:



The bay will be closed off eventually, I had detailed the original weapons bay like what's in the book, which has numerous very detailed drawings.

I've another CF-105 I'm building which will represent a much later version, the Mach 3 one, but that's for another time as I want to finish it first before I show everyone my thinking.  I'm following some of the details which the book tells you about for this version, which says it would probably have to have four of what the book calls 'fuel pods' under the wings of about 600 gal.  I'm going to use the 600 gal. tanks from an F-4/F-15


Altogether I have five Arrow kits in 1/72, 3 Hobbycraft ones and 2 Victoria Products vacuforms.  I've also got a couple of Mastercrafters resin forward fuselages which are a marvel to look at.

[elmayerle]

Actually, I believe the studied underwing tanks for the Mk.4 version were 1000 gal. tanks.  Here's one artist's concept.  I think the RAF Arrow pic by Randall Whitcomb that I posted elsewhere also illustrates these tanks.

The big problem with underwing carriage is that you have to be careful not to block the the main landing gear.  The advanced Arrow with the twin-ramjet pods under each wing got around that by incorporating a new main landing gear that retracted into the pods between the ramjets and the fuel carried in the aft end of the pods.

[kitnut617]

Nice pic Evan,  the book says that the u/c would have been redesigned to fold away 'between' the two pods.  Personally I don't see that really happening as the wing was a multi-spar wing and the u/c would then cut across all the spars.  The original u/c retracted between two of the spars.  The book doesn't elaborate on how it would have been accomplished.

The other thing is I think the engines would have to be bigger than the Iroquois and I'm saying this after comparing other Mach 3 aircraft, the engines are huge.
My thoughts on this is the u/c would have to be moved to the fuselage and I'm thinking something between the Mig.31 and TSR2 style.

Robert

[kitnut617]

It's the second Arrow I build, first ended as a USN Navy (truly a huge whatif   )

Actually Archie you'll find that the Arrow isn't much different in size to the Vigilante, which is a bit shorter in length but has a wide wing span than the Arrow  

[elmayerle]

Nice pic Evan,  the book says that the u/c would have been redesigned to fold away 'between' the two pods.  Personally I don't see that really happening as the wing was a multi-spar wing and the u/c would then cut across all the spars.  The original u/c retracted between two of the spars.  The book doesn't elaborate on how it would have been accomplished.

The other thing is I think the engines would have to be bigger than the Iroquois and I'm saying this after comparing other Mach 3 aircraft, the engines are huge.
My thoughts on this is the u/c would have to be moved to the fuselage and I'm thinking something between the Mig.31 and TSR2 style.

Well, the attached gives some idea of what the ramjet additions would entail.  I'll post a second pic that shows a view from the rear.  i've seen the drawings for the ramjet pods and there's a load path from where the gear attaches to the pod (it retracts into the pod) up through the pylon into where the MLG on the early versions attaches.

[elmayerle]

And here's the advanced Arrow launching an air-launched ABM that Avro Canada had in the PD stage.

[elmayerle]

And finally a shot of it on it's gear.

[Archibald]

Hello!! Kitnut, I'm very interested by your Iroquois exhausts. I want to scratchbuild some... Any dimensions (diameter would be nice!) compared to the (crap)  kit exhausts ?
Didn't noticed (either) that the rear section of the plane (around the exhausts) was bare metal. I suppose no paint would resist Iroquois' heat    
Something to remember...

Undercarriage clearly look uttershite. Don't have the skills to build new legs, but at least I'll change its wheels!!

The wings clearly look much to thick, there's some re-profiling to do  
The Arrow was as big as the Vigie, but delta wing won't help landing on a carrier    BTW it looks cool, and that's the most important thing   (Hasegawa Crusader decals send by Pollux)  

Well, I've discovered yesterday evening that Italeri YF-12 only has 2*AIM-47
 No problem, I'll scratchbuild some using russians missiles left...

This four-ramjet Arrow is impressive to say the least