Canadian Achzarit/puma/nagmachon

[Son of Damian]

Now that the first Canadian Leopard 2A6s have arrived in Kandahar I was wondering what will happen to the aging Leo 1s; and Australia'a Leo 1s for that matter?

EFPs (explosively Formed Projectiles) and powerful IEDs are become ever more common on the battlefields in Afghanistan and Iraq. The Humvees, Landrovers, M-113s, and LAV's/Strykers our troops are traveling around in have become increasingly suspetible and lead to numerious casualties. Yet during the Second Lebanon War in 2006 only a few IDF soldiers were killed or injured while inside there vehicals (APCs & Tanks) despite Hezbollah being very well equiped with modern ATGMs, shoulder fired RPGs (RPG-29), and having six years to build bunkers, defensive positions, and plant mines and IEDs. This is because IDF soldiers travel around in APCs made from the hulls of out dated tanks like the Centurion and T-55.

So how about a Canadian Achzarit, Puma, or Nakpadon based on the Leo 1's hull. It would have the same troop capacity as the LAV but with significantly better armor and cross country capability.

[Hobbes]

You'd have to modify the hull considerably to make this practical. The Israelis prefer APVs based on their Merkava these days, because those have a rear entry hatch. The Leopard has its engine in the back, so you'd have to climb in/out via top hatches. This makes the infantrymen rather more vulnerable.  

[Son of Damian]

You'd have to modify the hull considerably to make this practical. The Israelis prefer APVs based on their Merkava these days, because those have a rear entry hatch. The Leopard has its engine in the back, so you'd have to climb in/out via top hatches. This makes the infantrymen rather more vulnerable.

If you drove the tank backwards, made the back the front, the engine wouldn't be a problem and it would give the crew extra protection from frontal attack.

I'm sure this would be more suitable to Canadian tax payers.

 

[Madoc]

Hobbes,

The tank-to-APV conversions the Israelis did were done using tanks they'd captured in battle and that were otherwise obsolete.  The things couldn't cut it against the current generation of Arab tanks so there was no further use for them in that role.

Someone in the IDF then came up with the idea of making use of them as Armored Personnel Vehicles.  To do this however, it would involve gutting the tanks and leaving little more than just the hulls and perhaps the suspension systems.  The Israelis moved the engines for these machines up to the front of the hull and then worked back from there.  Even with all this work being done to them they still came in cheaper than designing and building entirely new vehicles.

Thus, if you did want to modify a Leopard into this role, then you could expect it to receive the same treatment - the hull gutted and engine shifted to the front, etc.,.

I think it'd be interesting to see such a conversion!

Madoc

[viper29_ca]

I say, take the Leopard 1 Chassis and turn them in to a MMEV, or Multi-Missions Effects Vehicle.

Basically an all in one vehicle, chassis of a tank, central turret that houses a medium calibre chain gun, 20mm, 25mm, 30mm, 35mm, what ever your flavor, hanging off the side of the turret you have Anti-Tank missiles, Anti-Aircraft Missiles, folding fin rockets for anti-personal and light armored targets.

The Canadian military has been playing around with the idea for awhile, and were thinking of building them on the LAVIII/Stryker chassis, but now with all the spare Leo 1 tanks they are going to have.....build it on them.

Have a look here:

MMEV

MMEV - 2

Here is a good video on its capabilities

MMEV Video

[GTX]

Re the Australain Leopards, they are to be offered for sale:

Leopard tanks to be offered for sale
Wednesday August 30, 2006

"For sale. Used tanks. One careful owner. Never fired a shot in anger. Make an offer."

That's set to be the fate of the Australian army's old but still serviceable Leopard tanks.

If a buyer cannot be found, the tanks and their teutonic steel face an even worse fate - the scrap yard.

The Leopard tanks first arrived in Australia from Germany in 1976, ending a selection and trials process which started in 1971 when the army decided it needed a replacement for the British Centurions which entered Australian service in 1952.

Australia purchased 103 Leopard tanks, each worth about $600,000.

They are now set to be retired with the arrival of the first of 59 rebuilt US Abrams tanks next month.

The retirement of the Leopard tanks, which will be offered for sale by public tender, will occur progressively as the Abrams enter service over the next year.

"A small quantity will be retained for museums. The balance will be presented for sale, and failing that, disposed of as scrap," a defence spokesman said on Wednesday.

Defence has no idea what sort of return it can expect from the sale of the Leopard tanks, saying it all depends on the market.

Under an end-use agreement, German government approval is required for all disposal action.

Defence says German government approval will also determine whether the tanks are sold as a going concern, still equipped with working weaponry, sights, night vision equipment and radios.

Unfortunately for the Australian Defence Force, the global used-tank market is awash with vehicles due to military downsizing following the Cold War.

Australia's vehicles are all early model Mark 1 Leopard tanks, albeit significantly upgraded. A number of European nations have sought to sell their much more desirable surplus Mark 2 Leopard tanks.

Regards,

Greg

[GTX]

Re Israeli Tanl/APC developments, I believe the latest plan is to mass produce the Namera Heavy APC (based upon the Merkava MBT) - see here for pics/details.
I have wondered about trying to do a similar conversion for an Abrams MBT.

Regards,

Greg

[Son of Damian]

Unfortunately for the Australian Defence Force, the global used-tank market is awash with vehicles due to military downsizing following the Cold War.

Australia's vehicles are all early model Mark 1 Leopard tanks, albeit significantly upgraded. A number of European nations have sought to sell their much more desirable surplus Mark 2 Leopard tanks.

When there are Leo 2's for sale I don't think you will find a buyer for your Leo 1's... even more reason to convert them to an APC.

GTX,

You work for a defense contractor right, why don't you float the idea of turing the Leo 1's in APCs to your boss  

[GTX]

I agree that the chance are pretty unrealistic for anyone buying the Leopards.  I expect they will end up as scrap, targets and maybe a few as museum or similar displays.

As for proposing the conversion of the tanks, I don't think so.  Firstly, my company is mainly involved with aerospace work and although my job does involve the identification of new business opportunities, I don't believe there is a justifiable business case in this.

Regards,

Greg

Post Edited.