V-22 Osprey

[lancer]

Ok, first off, this isn't my idea. It's out of the the latest Dale Brow book I'm reading. The idea is for a jet powered MV22, actually called an MV32 Dasher in the book, but I thought I'd share it with you guys. Personally, I like the idea; more power; faster; better range and no oversized props either.  As I'm not likely to be building this sometime soon, I  thought i'd hand it over for any of you MV22 nuts to have a bash at.  

[Joe C-P]

Problem: if one engine goes out you're dead. On the Osprey the engines are cross-linked, so one can drive the other's prop. Can't do that with a jet. If you're in level flight you might be able to hit full rudder, kill the other engine and crash-land, but if you're in hover it's over and down.    

[JC Carbonel]

While we are speaking Osprey  : has any of you ever come across a Strike version of the Osprey (one pilot bubble cockpit, slightly thiner fuselage and torpedoes  were the cargo bay is supposed to be). I saw a model of it years ago at a Paris Air Show but never found any info about it since then (even considering the numerous Osprey books and articles which have appeared since)
JCC

[elmayerle]

While we are speaking Osprey  : has any of you ever come across a Strike version of the Osprey (one pilot bubble cockpit, slightly thiner fuselage and torpedoes  were the cargo bay is supposed to be). I saw a model of it years ago at a Paris Air Show but never found any info about it since then (even considering the numerous Osprey books and articles which have appeared since)
JCC

I've seen drawings for strike versions of the XV-15, put not for ones directly from the V-22.

[Aircav]

You could always slap a pair of Viking wings on to the Osprey fuselage or even some Twotter wings.

[TsrJoe]

try these...had them posted on the site for ages...iv the brochures on file if anyone requires ga.s of them for modelling? cheers, joe  

first the initial 'Hawkeye style' rotodome...

http://groups.msn.com/TSR-2ResearchGroup/m...oto&PhotoID=181

then the 'Viking type' triangular one...

http://groups.msn.com/TSR-2ResearchGroup/m...oto&PhotoID=182

[Joe C-P]

Have V-22 at home. Possiblility.

Really want to buy an AH-1W in the same scale and strip the chin turret and weapons to make a self-escorting assault bird.    B)  

[John Howling Mouse]

Not that I'm normally influenced much by the "real" world in my What If modeling but I was wondering:

Are there any "attack" variants of big helo's such as Chinooks, Stallions, Pumas, Mi-28's, Merlins, etc.?

In kitbashing my V-22 Osprey into a helicopter, I would like it to be something of an MPH (Multi-Purpose Helicopter) which would retain the cargo ramp but also have enlarged Hind-style winglets carrying a swack of ground-attack ordnance.

Then I started wondering if there were any equivalents in the real world for bigger helo's but could not find any.  There are gunship Chinooks but I can't think of any big production choppers out there with armament winglets loaded up with various missiles, etc.

Is this the case?  If so, why?  Too much weight?  Not enough agility?  Just not effective in a strategic sense?

[viper29_ca]

Hey there JHM,

What scale are you building it in?? 1/72?

Italeri makes a 1/72 ACH-47 Chinnok gunship, along with sporting 30cal machine guns at the 2 man doors on each side, as well as the rear ramp, on the out board sponsons it also has what looks like a pair of either 25mm or 30mm chain guns, as well as a pair of 19 round rocket pods. Not sure how long this beast was in service, or if it ever was in service, but it looks damn mean to me.

Mind you I plan on making it in to a regular Canadian CH-147 Chinook, no, not What If, but it is Canadian.

Mind you we never sported one bristling with guns like the kit shows!!!

CH-53 gunship??? there probably have been some iteration, mostly what I have seen it 50 cals, or mini guns on the man doors and the rear ramp, but nothing more than that, really until I saw this kit of the ACH-47 Gunship, I had only just seen guns on the doors of the Chinook.  

[RotorheadTX]

John,

There isn't much precedent for an AV-22, and the huge prop diameters preclude the use of pylon-mounted forward-firing weapons. I suppose they could be synchronized, but that isn't the norm for podded weapons systems like GAUs and FFARs. Bell was putting their hopes on selling a companion attack tilt-rotor like the BAT or an armed 609 in any case.
There was originally a proposed set of hardpoints to be mounted on the maingear sponsons, carrying torpedos on the SV-22 and fuel tanks on the HV-22.

Not many of the armed helicopters to date have approached the size of an AH-22; the Hind and armed versions of the Puma and Blackhawk seem to be the upper limit. The ACH-47 was a success, but the project was cancelled in favor of the AH-1 after only 5 ships were converted. The high manpower needs per flight hour, systems complexity, and the Army's dire need of heavy transport helos in Nam all piled up against the great beast. The 47's were better attack ships that might be expected - while maneuverability was limited, they could lay down so much fire that the enemy didn't even try to stick their heads up. That said, in the high threat-density of current environments, the Havoc, Apache, Cobra, and Tiger all arrive at roughly the same limit of reasonable size for an attack bird.


The Air Force tested armed HH-3 JGGs, and the Navy tried arming SH-3A Sea Kings, but neither of these projects went very far. Currently, most of the big helos are limited to door guns up to .50 cals, and the true attack birds carry the heavy iron. I've seen a 20mm cannon rig for the USN's SH-60R, but that is still developing  AFAIK. The remaining big-bodied armed birds are things like the German and Italian Sea Kings, and of course the RN's Merlin, but these are primarily ASW and ASV aircraft.

In closing, I must say I do look forward to seeing your conversion. Care to share any of the details??

Cheers!
Tony

[John Howling Mouse]

In picking the "CH-22" I may have inadvertently referenced something that does actually exist(?) and my intended kitbash was not clearly understood.

What I'm doing (to a 1:48 Italeri V-22) is knocking off the wings entirely, turning the existing thick-but-streamlined upper wing roots into sleek twin-engine housings, and will add a tail c/w rotor.

I thought it would be interesting to take the hybrid Osprey VTOL (neither an ordinary airplane nor a true helicopter) and turn it into just another helicopter.

As a fictional Chinook/Merlin/Puma competitor, I could leave it right there, including the existing cargo ramp.  

But I wanted to add Hind-style winglets to expand its capabilities to a ground attack helo as well (hell, I'll even put Sidewinders on the winglet's outer tips, too!).

Then, I realized I could not recall any similar large helo with ordnance-laden winglets in the real world and figured there were probably good reason(s) for this (or maybe I was just overlooking something that was actually produced).

[Jschmus]

External armament on the ACH-47 included rocket pods of different calibers and 20mm gunpods.  I have seen photos of Mi-8 helicopters with door guns and either rocket pods (68 or 80mm), gun pods or AT missiles.  

Used to see pictures of UH-60s with ESSS wings that would support up to 16 Hellfire, or FFAR, or a mix, but at that time they couldn't also carry the targeting gear.  The new HH-60 variants for the Navy carry all the necessary gear for Penguin and Hellfire.  

During the early days of the LAMPS program, the Navy experimented with turning the SH-2 into a gunship, with chin-mounted Miniguns, and pylons for rockets or Maverick missiles.  The Maverick capability has been retained in the latest versions used by the RAN.

As to bigger helicopters, I've read somewhere that the Air Force MH-53s are capable of carrying Hellfire or Stinger, but I've never seen pictures of how these would be carried, though I assume they would be mounted outboard on the sponsons in lieu of external tanks.  This would limit range, though.

[Captain Canada]

Sounds cool, JHM !

That Chinook gunship is the only big attack bird I've ever heard of as well. Doing up a Super Frelon as an attacker would be neat as well.......perhaps as French Indo-China War type ?

I had a plan aways back to combine a Huey Cobra with a Bronco......still might, someday !

Cheers !

[Chris707]

Early 1960s vintage..competitive with LTV's proposal that became the XC-142..looks fairly easy to cobble together too!



Chris

[BlackOps]

First time I had seen this, looks much better to me than the Osprey.

V-44


Jeff G.